analag

I Drink
« on: June 12, 2020, 05:21:35 PM »
To the old guards, those who died, who are in the old folks home, who ran away and those who just lost the love of electronics and the spirit if DIY.  I remember the old geniuses, the guys who were able to stimulate PRR. When they left I stopped trying to analyze molecules and found newer more exciting hobbies. I have not built a piece in years that  brought a tear to my eye.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 05:33:43 PM by analag »
Audio engineering suffers from misinformation, disinformation, and downright lying more than most fields of endeavour.


pucho812

Re: I Drink
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2020, 06:17:42 PM »
might want to switch back to the cola, that liquor is not right for you  ;)
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

bluebird

Re: I Drink
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2020, 01:24:56 AM »
You need to loosen up you big NERD... Always so dramatic.
Most of the "old guards" are still here. And there are plenty of new guards, so who cares?

Everything is the same as it ever was. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was... 8)

Re: I Drink
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2020, 01:30:40 AM »
He posted the same thing two years ago... https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=69860.msg890878#msg890878

Re: I Drink
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2020, 08:35:11 AM »
You need to loosen up you big NERD... Always so dramatic.
Most of the "old guards" are still here. And there are plenty of new guards, so who cares?

Everything is the same as it ever was. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was... 8)

I guess he cares?

That's allowed.

I've been told before I'm way more chill in person than they perceived by my writing.  Part of the Internet's problem and how we use it, humour doesn't come across well.. some people are more serious though, and heaven forbid, dramatic.  Nothing wrong with it.  I'm more often serious and dramatic than I am comical, but I do have a funny, silly side.  That's what people get to see more often in person.  Unfortunately, I've found that as circles get smaller, and the more isolated things get over time, the less interactive things get in real life and the more reliant we are on Internet interaction.  In other words, I feel like we're all becoming more serious and more numb.  The world has had enough forums and enough opinions to last for the next million years.  That's dangerous because we're not getting a balanced dose of interactions... maybe you get that balance being a family man and all, with a fancy pants mastering gig, which is a good thing. 

Things are different now on the Internet, not same as it ever was... before twitter, before facebook, before myspace, before hi5, there was MSN messenger, ICQ, and those email list type things - forget what they're called.  It was all new.  People were more than willing to chat, carry on, joke around using fake names even though everyone knew each other in person.  It was just a little extension of real life friendships.. mostly something to fool around with before it was bedtime.

Now it's fatiguing to see and hear people's opinions constantly, on tv and on a ton of online media if you tune in.  Everyone wants to be Internet famous or something.. with most people using media as a way to further their brand or their reputation.  I try to tune out to the noise as much as possible.  The selfie thing is just utterly ridiculous and depressing if you happen to see a screen roll of duck lips and sad faces.. you're seeing the effect of the new Internet.

As for this place specifically.  There's so many schematics and projects, and kits and information it's all overload.  There's really not much left in audio to be invented, just revamped.  The old dogs are likely bored and move on to new challenges.  Seriously.  Then, as you say, new dogs come along and well... like I've said before, when you emulate something or someone it can never be as good as the thing you're emulating.  There's not much in the way of new, valuable information in this field.  Most of us are recreating and revising stuff from 50 years ago.  I'm about to start a project that uses a design from 1947.  A lot folks realize what they're missing with an all digital path/workflow and arrive here at GroupDIY to remedy that.  Then they run into the no colour design philosophy police from the new guards.  The ones who don't even realize how much compression and imperfection is in their favourite music. ;)  I've had to try and fight that battle myself, with a few people chiming in here and there.  It gets very fatiguing and boring after a while, for both sides.  Hard to convince someone of something they're not going to ever understand or accept as their belief too.  But alas, we try.  And usually fail.  And move on.

The whole world could use a heavy dose of tube amplifiers to take the edge off.  I am 100% serious about that.  The sharp digital audio, the sharp digital imagery, the quantity of 'content', the lack of 'content' control.  My parents sometimes listen to stingray music channels, one of them is called easy listening.  The playback system is.... wait for it.  A Samsung TV with little speakers and some weak solid state power amps, most likely an IC.  They don't even realize how much edgier their personalities have gotten over the past 10 to 15 years.  They always have the TV on now, as a backdrop, and there's always some kind of panel discussion of what ifs, or discussing lies of the day.  You can't turn the TV up past 8 without it getting hard to tolerate soundwise.  When I'm around and get the opportunity I either turn the tv down, or I turn it off.  You'd be surprised how much it improves the feeling and the attitude of the conversation and the energy in the room.  So if you combine today's edgy amps, edgy imagery, and edgy panel discussions, it leads to anxiety.  This forum is reflecting that anxiety too.  This is why I keep saying we need to design with an approach that is not only aware of imperfections as being integral, but how to finesse them into the design on purpose.  It's a middle ground, not sound FX, not motionless 0.000001% rigid audio, somewhere in the middle.  We can help the world get better with our audio design!  Show the world what they've lost... that warm, slow glow.  Except, they won't want to pay for it.

The only way it would truly be 'like it was' is if everyone decided to get rid of smart phones, start lowering their resolution, reducing their media intake, and by doing more things with people in the real world.  And by changing our approach to designing things.  Efficiency isn't always a good thing.

Your echoed line made me smile and chuckle.  See, you'd never know unless I said so.

Adam

fazer

Re: I Drink
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2020, 09:02:00 AM »
Like it Adam .  I’m posting  that post in a notebook.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 11:35:02 AM by fazer »

mjrippe

Re: I Drink
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2020, 02:02:25 PM »
Personally, I think I am "Old Guard" or at least old but then I also think I am hilariously funny.  You folks may not read me that way, who knows?  Regardless, I love this place and the characters that inhabit it.

ruairioflaherty

Re: I Drink
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2020, 03:14:24 PM »
The whole world could use a heavy dose of tube amplifiers to take the edge off.  I am 100% serious about that.  The sharp digital audio, the sharp digital imagery, the quantity of 'content', the lack of 'content' control. 

The answer to bad digital is not fuzzy analog, it's good digital.




scott2000

Re: I Drink
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2020, 04:57:01 PM »
Quote
Most of us are recreating and revising stuff from 50 years ago.  I'm about to start a project that uses a design from 1947. 


Can't wait to see it.... 

One thing I have noticed on somewhat of a flip side is that, the more I hear some cool tube stuff, the more I appreciate a good solid state piece. Kinda weird and hard to explain exactly what I mean.... somewhat similar when I started to back pedal my beliefs a little on modding gear after a few years of doing it.

Another thing is that I'm guessing the mindset of the builders from the eras gone by probably don't line up with the reasons we want to build them in some ways. Which is pretty cool none the less.....

Oh...Cheers!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 05:04:10 PM by scott2000 »

Re: I Drink
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2020, 05:55:37 PM »
Back in the day, those records that have so many imperfections as you say, were like that because there was no other choice, they did what they did with the equipment they had at hand which was state of the art back then. People nowadays are still making garbage using Neve and SSL equipment. And yes, count me in the no coulour design police...


Re: I Drink
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2020, 07:00:15 PM »
The answer to bad digital is not fuzzy analog, it's good digital.

Oh brother...
To each his own.

Your solution to bad digital is good digital?  Let me know when you've designed it.

Ruairi and Dualflip, what mics do you use?  What hardware?  Show me one record that you like that doesn't have imperfections on it.  Did I ever say crap records aren't or weren't made on good hardware?

What's your guys' proposed solution to the very poor power amps and poor speakers most people use to get their 'content', made by the insane amount of 'content' creators? i.e. In smart phones and in flat screen tvs.  They have that stuff cause it's convenient and built in.  Manufacturers are using it because it's 'state of the art' and very power efficient, very cost efficient, precise and looks good on paper.  It does absolutely nothing for me.

What I refer to about warm, slow glow is much more subtle than you may realize and most people are not even aware of the issue, but it is there.  There is proof that tube amplifiers are more calming.  And yes, I like solid state amplifiers too.

Do you prefer real Princess Leia, or Computer Generated Princess Leia? 

Never has a generation documented themselves more thoroughly doing absolutely nothing than this generation, the social media, high tech generation.  It's almost all fluff.

More technology is not the answer.  More guns is not the answer to gun violence.  More ICs and more digital is not the answer to the problem that digital technology has presented.

There are no purely clean, purely digital productions.  None.  Do you prefer Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, or Demi Levoto's Sorry Not Sorry?  Don't come at me with false equivalency arguments either.  Demi's song is the only one I know of right now that was cut with a virtual mic and virtual emulation.

What I wrote about above at length and continue to write about is much, much more than JUST digital vs analog, colour vs no colour.   Why don't you give some examples.

ps. I hope I get an open invitation to see and hear good digital when you've come up with it.

Adam

Re: I Drink
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2020, 07:03:16 PM »
Can't wait to see it.... 

One thing I have noticed on somewhat of a flip side is that, the more I hear some cool tube stuff, the more I appreciate a good solid state piece. Kinda weird and hard to explain exactly what I mean.... somewhat similar when I started to back pedal my beliefs a little on modding gear after a few years of doing it.

Another thing is that I'm guessing the mindset of the builders from the eras gone by probably don't line up with the reasons we want to build them in some ways. Which is pretty cool none the less.....

Oh...Cheers!

Thanks man.

And Fazer, I'm glad you related to what I said, and felt it was worth keeping around in your notebook.  Thanks.

Scodiddly

Re: I Drink
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2020, 07:23:32 PM »
These days I drink almost exclusively from local brewers.  Luckily even my little village has two microbreweries, so I've got some choices.

Re: I Drink
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2020, 07:51:51 PM »

What I refer to about warm, slow glow is much more subtle than you may realize and most people are not even aware of the issue, but it is there.  There is proof that tube amplifiers are more calming.  And yes, I like solid state amplifiers too.


When you say stuff like that you have to provide references to back up your claims, proof? Prove it, which study?, under which conditions? what was the sample? how big was the sample? 2-3 persons VS. 100, was it mainly old guys or young guys? male or female? was it made by a reputable source like a university or was it a 'dude' in his basement with a couple of friends? What exactly about tube amplifiers makes them more calming? is it the distortion? is it that they look pretty? You have to be able to quantify these things, otherwise, there is proof of nothing, that is scientific proof im talking about, unless you mean faith based proof which is a completely different thing, and if so, im not interested.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 07:56:46 PM by Dualflip »

Re: I Drink
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2020, 07:58:51 PM »
When you say stuff like that you have to provide references to back up your claims, proof? Prove it, which study?, under which conditions? what was the sample? how big was the sample? 2-3 persons VS. 100, was it mainly old guys or young guys? male or female? was it made by a reputable source like a university or was it a 'dude' in his basement with a couple of friends? What exactly about tube amplifiers make them more calming? is it the distortion? is it that they look pretty? You have to be able to quantify these things, otherwise, there is proof of nothing, that is scientific proof im talking about, unless you mean faith based proof which is a completely different thing, and if so, im not interested.

I'll leave that one for you to find out.  How about address and answer questions I posed rather than highlight one thing you think you can pick on.  Same goes for you Ruairi.

I'm not interested in what you have to say either Dualflip.  I addressed that above when I referred to the no colour in audio design police that do what you do... try to nit pick.  Answer some real questions and provide your own thoroughly, well thought out contribution to the discussion.  Otherwise, keep it to yourself.

Adam

Re: I Drink
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2020, 08:04:47 PM »
I'll leave that one for you to find out. 

I though you had proof?

But ok, I'll answer some of your questions, what about the modern classical music records made all-digitally vs the crappy old ones were you couldn't listen to the low sections because there was enough hiss to blow your toupee? or you couldnt stand a steady violin string because all the wow and flutter? or when the orchestra saturated the tube amps on the loud passages and you could hear the distortion? is that enough examples?. There is also jazz, folk music, country for that matter... many of them are entirely digital. So your assertion that There are no purely clean, purely digital productions.  None is flawed, you need to widen your horizons, not everything is Pink Floyd or Demi Lovato.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 08:11:09 PM by Dualflip »

Re: I Drink
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2020, 08:11:07 PM »
I though you had proof?

But ok, I'll answer some of your questions, what about the modern classical music records made all-digitally vs the crappy old ones were you couldn't listen to the low sections because there was enough hiss to blow your toupee? or you couldnt stand a steady violin string because all the wow and flutter? or when the orchestra saturated the tube amps on the loud passages and you could hear the distortion? is that enough examples?. There is also jazz, folk music, country for that matter... many of them are entirely digital. So your assertion that There are no purely clean, purely digital productions.  None is flawed, you need to widen your horizonts, not everything is rock, or hip hop.
I listen to all genres wise ass.
My argument isn't flawed, you just don't know what you don't know.

Answer the rest of the questions posed.  Put your heightened beliefs and information out there.

Re: I Drink
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2020, 08:12:45 PM »
I listen to all genres wise ass.
My argument isn't flawed, you just don't know what you don't know.

Answer the rest of the questions posed.  Put your heightened beliefs and information out there.

By the way you respond I'm guessing that you are pretty young, so I'll let this one slide..., I already answered some of your questions, you say: There are no purely clean, purely digital productions.  None, I just gave you examples, You say there is proof that tubes are more calming, yet you dont provide proof, what more do you want?

Re: I Drink
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2020, 08:14:44 PM »
By the way you respond I'm guessing that you are pretty young, so I'll let this one slide..., I already answered some of your questions, you say There are no purely clean, purely digital productions.  None, I just gave you examples, what more do you want?

Answer all the questions, you did not prove anything other than you just don't know what you're talking about and you want to try and nit pick.  Don't assume I'm not talking about all genres, or insult me cause you think you're depth is so much wider.

Re: I Drink
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2020, 08:17:53 PM »
Answer all the questions, you did not prove anything other than you just don't know what you're talking about and you want to try and nit pick.  Don't assume I'm not talking about all genres, or insult me cause you think you're depth is so much wider.

So if you are talking about all genres, then There are no purely clean, purely digital productions.  None, also applies to all genres?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 08:21:08 PM by Dualflip »


 

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