ruffrecords

Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« on: July 13, 2020, 06:34:45 AM »
I am seriously peeved at the Chinese authorities treatment of the democracy loving people of Hong Kong. I have therefore decided  not to have my bare PCBs made in China anymore. Instead I am going to source all my PCBs in democratic countries only. So if you have any recommendations please let me know.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'


Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2020, 09:22:47 AM »
Hello Ian

I'm more or less in the same boat, I'll just add the ecological reason too.

I do a quick search two month ago and find this in France https://en.cirly.com/

I don't contact them yet for price/quotation and minimum order, so don't know more

Cheers
Zam

JohnRoberts

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2020, 09:52:36 AM »
Good luck.... 

Several years ago hoping to avoid Chinese manufacture I ordered a production run of a simple PCB from a PC House in Canada..... weeks later the PCBs arrived shipped from China.  ::)

It may be all but impossible to boycott Chinese electronic components for all needs.

FWIW I just bought a cheap 65" TV monitor and it claims "assembled in USA". That tells me one or more subassemblies are not USA sourced.

I am not sure what we as individuals can do that will be felt by China other than encourage our leaders to push back. I recall late last century when consumer sentiment was overwhelmingly anti-China, but if the price was low enough self-interest squashed all moral outrage.

 Hong Kong is quickly losing its status as not being just another Chinese city. Australia is offering permanent status to some 10,000 hong kong citizens in country on visas. UK has offered residency to more than that. The cream of the Hong Kong business community are leaving, or already gone.

I know a couple people living in HK and I don't see either of them leaving any time soon. The younger one might, but the older one is from an old Hong Kong family.

==

China is not happy about US criticism and pressure over treatment of Hong Kong... China just sanctioned Ted Cruz and Mario Rubio who probably consider that a compliment and incentive to generate anti-China legislation.

JR   
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

ruffrecords

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2020, 04:56:46 PM »
Good luck.... 

Several years ago hoping to avoid Chinese manufacture I ordered a production run of a simple PCB from a PC House in Canada..... weeks later the PCBs arrived shipped from China.  ::)

Many PCB houses seem to offer local prototypes but volume from China and most I have seen are up front about it. There are still plenty of non-China PCB houses for the modest quantities I require. India seems an interesting alternative.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

john12ax7

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2020, 07:47:54 PM »
You could try pcbshopper.com and see what comes up.  There is eurocircuits from Belgium but maybe not cost effective enough.

I'm also interested if there are any US based alternatives,  or at least ones that ship here. Who are the Indian ones?

Edit : OSH Park does worldwide shipping and is a good option for small boards, but not cost effective for larger boards.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 07:55:14 PM by john12ax7 »

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2020, 09:37:45 PM »
Please can we keep this thread on topic. I wish I had never mentioned my motivation for doing this.

Ian,
 I can't help with suppliers, but I don't think there's any need to regret mentioning your motives.
There's no shame in being a decent person.

Good luck,  and let us know what you find.
 
Note to self:  Don't let c**ts wind you up

volker

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2020, 02:22:03 AM »
At my day job we use this  supplier: https://www.multi-circuit-boards.eu/index.html
Not what I would call cheap, and I think they only sell to companies, no private persons.

I'm  regularly looking for non-Asian alternatives. This one in Bulgaria is the cheapest I've found so far, but I haven' ordered from them yet: https://micron20.com/index.php
The problem with many European pcb houses is they have no online calculators, so direct comparison isn't possible.

evil grill

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2020, 02:53:32 AM »

ruffrecords

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2020, 03:37:28 AM »
Thanks for the tips everyone. There are lots of small suppliers in India so they may be cheap but are they reliable. The most professional looking one I found so far is Lion Circuits:

https://www.lioncircuits.com/

I tried PCBshopper but they mainly list Chinese companies and the non-Chinese are all very expensive.

Multi-Circuit-Boards actually seems quite reasonable for a European supplier - certainly cheaper than anything I could find here in the UK.

I will check out the Bulgarians. I wondered if there are any Polish ones too.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

Walrus

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2020, 09:06:31 AM »
I've used these people,  https://uk.beta-layout.com/ 
they seem to be worldwide but this link is Ireland.

Kevin.


ruffrecords

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2020, 12:32:13 PM »
I've used these people,  https://uk.beta-layout.com/ 
they seem to be worldwide but this link is Ireland.

Yes, I have come across them before. I am using a standard double Eurocard PCB as a price tester (quantity 10).  Typical answers so far

uk-beta-layout  £448 plus shipping
Lion Circuits (India) $88 plus shipping
Multi-circuits 182 Euros

As you can see a huge range of prices.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

gyraf

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2020, 03:29:14 AM »
You could perhaps find somebody in Taiwan that meets the bill?

/Jakob E.
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

JohnRoberts

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2020, 10:16:38 AM »
I really appreciate the sentiment but not buying PCB from china is unlikely to get the attention of the communist leadership.  If it makes you fell better to waste money, and you can afford to, enjoy.
======
Hong Kong just lost its special economic status and will now be treated like mainland china by the US.

Maybe petition your politicians to do something similar. (Of course the UK is already hyper-sensitive to Hong Kong outcomes for historical reasons).

Reportedly the UK has finally joined the US in boycotting Huawei telecom products (over security concerns) in response to the Hong Kong crack down.

Push back like this with economic teeth will register with the communist leadership.

JR

PS: Hong Kong is only one abuse on a long and growing list of Chinese aggression, as they try to take advantage of the world being focussed elsewhere. China is negotiating with Iran to minimize effects of western economic sanctions. I do not look forward to a nuclear Iran. 
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

MatthewF

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2020, 10:44:28 AM »
I'm not sure how prices would stack up, but it might be worth checking with P&M Services in Yorkshire: http://www.p-m-services.co.uk/index.htm

I had them do a few mic head amp PCBs for me a few years ago. The people were very helpful and the quality of the product was fantastic.

Cheers,

Matthew

abbey road d enfer

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2020, 12:47:08 PM »
Until recently I used https://www.eurocircuits.com/, but after spending about €500 on 3 PCB's I decided to look elsewhere.
I found https://jlcpcb.com/
Their headquarters are in HK, but I think production is in mainland.
However, the difference in price cannot be ignored.
My second batch of prototypes cost me €90, and I have 5 of each PCB for the same price.
Finally, who am I supporting, PRC or HK?
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

JohnRoberts

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2020, 12:52:02 PM »
Until recently I used https://www.eurocircuits.com/, but after spending about €500 on 3 PCB's I decided to look elsewhere.
I found https://jlcpcb.com/
Their headquarters are in HK, but I think production is in mainland.
However, the difference in price cannot be ignored.
My second batch of prototypes cost me €90, and I have 5 of each PCB for the same price.
Finally, who am I supporting, PRC or HK?
Under the new status they are being treated as the same, at least by the US. I don't know if EU and UK will follow suit.

Sorry if this is not helpful...   I used to make my own prototype PCBs but stopped doing that decades ago.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

ruffrecords

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2020, 05:24:25 PM »
I'm not sure how prices would stack up, but it might be worth checking with P&M Services in Yorkshire: http://www.p-m-services.co.uk/index.htm

I had them do a few mic head amp PCBs for me a few years ago. The people were very helpful and the quality of the product was fantastic.

Cheers,

Matthew

Always happy to support local industry where possible. I have contacted them fro a quote.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

ruffrecords

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2020, 06:38:52 PM »
I have received some more quotes for 10-off of the double Uurocard size PCB:

P-M- Services (UK)  ~ £400

Eltar (Poland)  ~ 263 Euros

Cirly (France)  531 Euros (5-off)

Cheers

Ian

www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

abbey road d enfer

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2020, 11:05:36 PM »
I have received some more quotes for 10-off of the double Uurocard size PCB:

P-M- Services (UK)  ~ £400

Eltar (Poland)  ~ 263 Euros

Cirly (France)  531 Euros (5-off)

Cheers

Ian
JLCPCB says €25. There may be some additional taxes.
What's wrong with our industries?
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

Re: Cost effective European bare PCB manufacture
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2020, 11:10:33 PM »

What's wrong with our industries?

No sweatshops?


 

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