fazer

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2020, 10:18:47 AM »
Approach cooking like your mixing music.  Add a little bit of this and that.   You control the ingredients.  Pay attention to how your body reacts to those ingredients.   Somethings are good and somethings are upsetting to your system.   I hated onions as a kid but find them irreplaceable today.   I don’t like what cucumbers do to me after eating so don’t use them in salad even though most people love them.   Your body tells you what works.    When I do go out to eat,  I think about the flavors in tasting to apply to the mix.

Approach cooking like your mixing music.   Needs a little of this and then a little if that and all of a sudden bame!


living sounds

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2020, 10:28:42 AM »
There is a lot of magical thinking surrounding weight loss plans, this is a mega-million dollar industry that profits from selling easy answers to desperate people for difficult problems. Like fashion, macro nutrients (protein, fats, carbohydrates)  rotate in and out of favor. Rather than favoring or avoiding single macro-nutrients eat all in balance and moderation. If you eat only healthy foods in moderation, your weight will take care of itself. You have the rest of your life to scrub off any excess weight, just stop consuming excess energy.

The best macronutrient composition for anyone may be down to individual traits (genetics and epigenetics), age, physical activity, so there is no easy answer. "Everything (good) in moderation" isn't generally a bad idea, though.

But what I was specifically advocating for here is based on science: Make sure you get sufficient protein first. This is the most important building block in the macronutrient category and satiation is only achieved by eating enough protein. You can eat that bag of chips laced with flavor-enhancers that suggest high protein content to your sensory system, and still feel unsatisfied afterwards - because your body didn't actually get the protein it needs to repair and replenish itself. So eating enough protein first and foremost is the easiest way to address excessive caloric intake. It reduces the craving, just as eating lot's of fiber and staying away from easily accessable carbohydrates, which pull up the blood sugar, which then gets pulled down again by the insulin response (at which point the craving sets in again).

JohnRoberts

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2020, 01:06:17 PM »
The best macronutrient composition for anyone may be down to individual traits (genetics and epigenetics), age, physical activity, so there is no easy answer. "Everything (good) in moderation" isn't generally a bad idea, though.
Perhaps optimal ratios vary, but we are omnivores and generally get far more of everything than we need from typical western diets.
Quote
But what I was specifically advocating for here is based on science: Make sure you get sufficient protein first. This is the most important building block in the macronutrient category and satiation is only achieved by eating enough protein.
OK two parts to this.... Protein is an essential building block for repairing normal human body wear and tear. If we don't eat enough protein the body will take it from elsewhere inside our body... this is called remodeling and we see significant remolding in long term starvation examples. The brain needs sugar daily for energy and if denied carbohydrates will actually convert protein to a sugar equivalent (using Ketosis) to supply energy to keep the brain running. If the brain isn't being fed nobody is happy.

Satiation is a whole 'nother ball game. The best book I read on that subject decades ago was "the psychology of eating and drinking" by AW Logue (C.1986).  This not a diet book but physiology/psychology text for those with serious interest. This book is some of that science living sounds referred to. It is well footnoted to support deeper dives into specific aspects.
Quote
You can eat that bag of chips laced with flavor-enhancers that suggest high protein content to your sensory system, and still feel unsatisfied afterwards - because your body didn't actually get the protein it needs to repair and replenish itself. So eating enough protein first and foremost is the easiest way to address excessive caloric intake. It reduces the craving, just as eating lot's of fiber and staying away from easily accessable carbohydrates, which pull up the blood sugar, which then gets pulled down again by the insulin response (at which point the craving sets in again).
That is a gross simplification and sounds a little like Atkins and similar high protein/low-no carbohydrate diets.  (I tried most of them over the years). I suspect there are new ones since I stopped dieting. DO NOT DIET.

Indeed you can't fool mother nature and our body learns the tastes associated with energy content of foods, so you can trick it in the short term with fake fats and artificial sweeteners, but it will realize over time if the fake foods lack the promised energy content and make you hungrier to fill that energy deficit.

BTW we are attracted to sweets, not because of energy content but because sweet fruits were an important source of vitamins C and others during formative era in our evolution. 

The blood sugar/insulin response is a little complicated, but benefits vastly from exercise to reverse insulin resistance in under used muscles.  IMO the vast majority of type two diabetics and metabolic syndrome sufferers could probably be cured by more exercise and less energy intake (i.e. it is caused by over eating and lack of exercise).

Sorry, my comments are also a gross oversimplification. Impossible to squeeze decades of observation into a short post. Beware of too easy solution, it is both simple and hard. Do not eat more energy than you need. Simple to understand but hard to do.   

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Seeker

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2020, 02:26:24 PM »
I would highly recommend some simple yoga poses, which can help with circulation, esp ‘legs up the wall’. That will at least help with swelling in the legs, and may help your body to get rid of uric acid that tends to pool in the lower extremeties.
"Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself.” - Miles

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2020, 08:23:41 PM »
Just to shake up the perceptions here a little. The largest concentration of people to live over 100 years old is found in Sardinia  where they eat high carb, low protein diets. Although genetics may play into this, typically they're seeing married couples both live to be 100+. It's most likely a combination of diet, water quality, short work days, and the fact most people get around on foot. So basically, live in moderation, and be active?

JohnRoberts

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2020, 11:41:59 PM »
Just to shake up the perceptions here a little. The largest concentration of people to live over 100 years old is found in Sardinia  where they eat high carb, low protein diets. Although genetics may play into this, typically they're seeing married couples both live to be 100+. It's most likely a combination of diet, water quality, short work days, and the fact most people get around on foot. So basically, live in moderation, and be active?
I thought Okinawa (Japan) held that honor and they have been studied for years, decades.  That said the "Mediterranean diet" has been well promoted for longevity so Italy and Greece are on the list with Japan (at least before covid).

Common themes are high vegetable (nutrient rich) intake, unsaturated fats, and moderate energy balance/exercise.

Avoid too simple answers... Genetics has something to do with longevity.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

CJ

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2020, 04:56:47 AM »
get on the bicycle.

but first, get your weight down.

fitness is all in the head. either your going to get pissed and commit to changing, or you will waffle the rest of your life, up and down, back and forth, on your way to high blood pressure, cancer, kidney failure, diabetes, pancreatitus, hep c, tooth ache, rusty spleen, hypertension, skizoid paranoia, gout, chirossis, stroke, heart attack, insanity, then divorce. then death.

at 215  lbs i would quit drinking and fast for two months. that's what i did when i wanted to get into rock climbing. Twinnings Earl Grey and Grapefruits with sugar. It worked.

you can drop 25 lbs a month if you fast. so two months you could be 215-50 = 165. now get on the bike. if you try to rde the bike at 215, you will gain weight from muscle mass, as muscle is heavier than fat, and your muscles will try to adapt to pushing a 215 lb body uphill. and it is hard on the bike also.

fasting is roughfor the first 3 days, but after that, the pain goes away and you get happy because you are getting better really quickly.

me? i am on the bike every day. 14 to 60 miles each ride, with a rest day now and then to fix dead legs. food? oatmeal and scrambled eggs,  pasta rice, chicken, salmon. yogurt, energy bars, carrot juice, peaches, no junk food.

best energy bars are
Tigers Milk Peanut Butter and Honey - 18 g Carbs 6 g Protein

or the bigger and twice as expensive

Quest White Chocolate Raspberry with 22 g Carbs and 20 g Protein.

want to get a rundown on what the pro cyclists eat?

right here>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iriejQTgF0&t=32s


keep a bike log to measure progress. here is mine for July, time, then miles, and stupid comments to help me remember the journey back to fitness,  enjoy the journey, be patient, you will get there. once you get there, stay there!

after you are in shape you can enjoy one or two beers after your workout, they have lots of carbs. me no drinks no mo.

weirdest thing so far? July 15. there was a guy in a wheel chair getting a lap dance from a skinny blond stripper type. right there on the bike path for the whole world to see.

                                                   JULY                                                                     
7/2               1:54                         25.4       sprint up heartbreak (BH) !            Wood BH FT Libby
7/3                  2:04              28.4    wood BH FT Wood Desolation Row     
7/4     4:21      55.68      petticoat junction back to woods BH Zang Libby Chase Down Woods   T steak
7/5    4:42    58.75      petticoat to woodard to BH to FC to Wood bonk   LSD  people pick rasberries
7/6           4:07  56                          petticoat to woddard to BH to 81 ave ibby home kept up with 3 jocks
7/7   0:35        7              Carrs bueberry arm cosed!  back.
7/8     1:48    24.7               Wood to BH smokeout up hill, libby to wood desoation
7/9     2:26        35.5    bp to mile 16.25 (engine house) to wood then lemon
7/10 dentist   hurt like hell!
7/11                   1:43  24.75                 Wood to BH to ibby to Wood Des Row
7/12                      4:24    52    Petticoat to Woods to BH and Libby home 1 smokeout..
7/13   4:20   60 miles  sidewall blowout Lilly rd petticoat woods BH woods women crash Is view rd
7/14   1:10   17           wood and back  dead legs
7/15       3:09      44.65  p jct then wood  lemon f grove  statin to cook alzheimers wheelchair lap dance
7/16  1:35    24-5          wood BH 83 libby fr g      42-17 up heart break
7/17            2:38    36    petticoat desolation 
7/18    2:38    36  petticoat to desolation  new gloves  same gum whole trip
7/19 4:08  54.5  dead legs at mile 30 kept goin to rt on libby let to BH back up hearybreak rt on libby sprinklers!  yellow peaches!
7/20      :58    14.5  wood lemon  tank top 8 oclock ride  80 degrees  girl at riendly grove
7/21   1:46   24.7     wood BH wood desolation       first BH hill in third gear!     


 





« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 05:56:03 AM by CJ »
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

living sounds

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2020, 05:27:51 AM »
Just to shake up the perceptions here a little. The largest concentration of people to live over 100 years old is found in Sardinia  where they eat high carb, low protein diets. Although genetics may play into this, typically they're seeing married couples both live to be 100+. It's most likely a combination of diet, water quality, short work days, and the fact most people get around on foot. So basically, live in moderation, and be active?

From what I've read these people usually also live in mountainous regions and actively get around these mountains on foot day by day. This kind of activity is great for cardiovascular health.

john12ax7

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2020, 06:23:25 PM »
Put quality ingredients into your body including alcohol.  Quality of beer can make a difference.  A lot of the American mass produced ones can have all sorts of unpleasant ingredients added.

Food wise try a natural unprocessed vegan diet. Eat as much as you want,, fresh vegetables,  fruits,  lentils,  beans,  nuts,  seeds,  healthy fats,  etc.  You will lose weight. If that is not doable try vegetarian or pescatarian.

Eat well.  Exercise.  Drink beer.  Be happy.

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2020, 11:31:30 PM »
I worked at a craft beer bar when my liver health slipped. Pounding those yummy ales. Especially Farmhouse ales  ;D .

But it’s true. They do put nasty things in mainstream American beers. If I still drank and had to choose one “cheap” simple beer to drink for the rest of my life. It would be Bitburger. Enforcing a beer purity law was a really good move IMO. I hope the Germans understand how good their cheap “sh*tty” beer is compared to the mainstream American beers.

Our craft scene is great though. My hometown of Chicago IMO decimates most of the rest of the country. Drink every beer by Off Color brewery.

Guess I miss beer more than I realize....


CJ

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2020, 11:38:50 PM »
Guinness Draught is the healthiest beer on the planet.

kind of fattening but by far the cleanest.

drink as much as you  want and you will not get a hangover.
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

JohnRoberts

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2020, 11:57:55 PM »
I worked at a craft beer bar when my liver health slipped. Pounding those yummy ales. Especially Farmhouse ales  ;D .

But it’s true. They do put nasty things in mainstream American beers. If I still drank and had to choose one “cheap” simple beer to drink for the rest of my life. It would be Bitburger. Enforcing a beer purity law was a really good move IMO. I hope the Germans understand how good their cheap “sh*tty” beer is compared to the mainstream American beers.
Bitburger... meh.... "Bitter ien bit" (please one Bitburger)...  Wimpy pilsners don't cut it for me these days.

I'll admit back in 1970 german beer was better than the 3.2% pisswater I was getting at Ft Riley, KS. In Germany back then each small town had their own local beer served in the local gausthaus.   


Quote


Our craft scene is great though. My hometown of Chicago IMO decimates most of the rest of the country. Drink every beer by Off Color brewery.

Guess I miss beer more than I realize....
Home brew is even better... like home made bread.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

john12ax7

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2020, 01:27:11 AM »
The Germans definitely got something right with the beer purity law.

For craft beer San Diego might be king of the hill right now.

Guinness tastes good but they used to use high fructose corn syrup. They claimed to have stopped, as well as no more isinglass now either.

Squeaky

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2020, 01:33:09 AM »
I second Bitburger as a good, dry, cheap beer with enough of a hoppy finish. I enjoyed drinking jugs of it with steamed mussels or perhaps a schweinshaxe during my stay in Aachen. I wish more beers were made with naturally occurring water, like, for example, Pilsner Urquell. There is a unique (and historical) relationship between beer and water. Styles developed, in part, because of the local water. Water quality is part of the reason we have dark beers and light (coloured) beers. I believe the name for the Burtonisation process comes from the Burton-on-Trent water, which had a naturally high sulphur content? Water quality (dissolved mineral content, anions, &c) to beer, is like terroir is to wine. I'm almost certain that most breweries, including craft breweries, have to "create" a water in order to brew a certain style of beer (by adding small amounts various mineral salts). This is what I would do.

I have a great sourdough culture that has been working well for ages now. Sunday is the day of my bread ritual (actually starts Saturday night). Homemade bread really is great. I've been using the Tartine method for a while now.

Whether it is walking, running, riding a bike, swimming, yoga , chi gong, or a combination, for some it requires considerable effort and willpower. However, that good eating, drinking in moderation and regular exercise (sounds like something from a Radiohead song), are good for you, is not that hard to grasp. We don't always do what we should because of the attraction of the path of least resistance. If you are committed, try and find exercise that is enjoyable for you, that can really help. But you do need a certain level of commitment to achieve anything. Oh, and learn to make a pasta sauce from scratch.

living sounds

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2020, 05:58:20 AM »
Personally I think "Helles" from Bavaria is the least headover inducing beer. But we digress...  :P

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2020, 08:09:39 AM »
I personally like Belgian and British beer, and both American and Mexican light beer. From Belgium I love Delirium Nocturnum, its a tripel dark beer, great taste.  I also love Guiness and Hobgoblin from the UK.

From the US I love Miller Highlife, and from Mexico I like Tecate, Victoria and Corona.

Thank you all for the encouraging words and all the great tips, I will definitely take them into account.

JohnRoberts

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2020, 09:26:12 AM »
I personally like Belgian and British beer, and both American and Mexican light beer. From Belgium I love Delirium Nocturnum, its a tripel dark beer, great taste.  I also love Guiness and Hobgoblin from the UK.
Belgian tripels are well known and respected around the world while not widely available. Back last century when I was regularly working the musik messe in Fankfurt, friends who knew me would bring me belgian beers. Like pale ale they are probably attractive to some younger people because of the high alcohol content (tripel suggests 3x).

One time decades ago, I carried about three tripel bottles back with me from Germany and made a batch of 2x home brew beer pitching the sediment in the bottom of the beer bottles (live yeast) into the new wort.  As I recall it turned out very well...  8) you can't make high alcohol brews with normal yeast because too much alcohol actually kills the yeast.
Quote
From the US I love Miller Highlife, and from Mexico I like Tecate, Victoria and Corona.
beers like Heineken and Guinness are widely available around the world so a safe go to choice. I have found Guinness in Hong Kong (bottled not on tap). That said beer is typically safer to drink than the water in some countries (in Mexico go for the Modello especial).

I can't say much good about most american mass market beer brands, Sam Adams makes one or two OK beers.
Quote
Thank you all for the encouraging words and all the great tips, I will definitely take them into account.
Good luck, be well

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Script

Re: Health or bliss?
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2020, 02:01:36 PM »
Quote
want to get a rundown on what the pro cyclists eat?

right here>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iriejQTgF0&t=32s
Ollie in nerd mode  ;D All baby food, specifically for cycling, where low residue = less baggage.

Personally,  I skip the scrambling and sometimes go for egg Rocky style in soy milk, pinch of salt, some honey, maybe a bit of peanut butter or just cinnamon -- like Xmas every other day.

Whatever the activity, in the end it's no sweat no good. But that also makes it easy to still overeat especially after higher efforts ! Trick is to drink lots of water(!) first, instead of diving straight into viking conquistador mode.


 

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