iomegaman

Dumb idea or just possible/impossible?
« on: September 15, 2020, 09:15:08 PM »
So I've been thinking a little outside the box...which is fine since I barely understand the box itself...

Here goes:

Suppose you have a coil/diaphragm connected to a chamber...inside the chamber you have some kind of fluid (or perhaps gas)...so the diaphragm needs to be some sort of "fluid proof" meaning that it needs to NOT be paper...on the other end of the chamber you have ANOTHER diaphragm connected to a coil but it is, oh lets say TWICE the size of the original coil/diaphragm...

Would inputting a signal on the first coil result in an AMPLIFIED signal on the second coil?

Could you hypothetically build a HYDRAULIC based mechanical amplifier?

Obviously your amplification would be limited to a certain ratio...but down that road by altering the tension of the fluid/gas could you possibly change the ratio?

What got me thinking about this was helping my youngest daughter this weekend she drove out from San Diego and kept getting a transmission warning light...by the time she got here I had  researched the newer CVT transmissions (which do not really use gears they use a metal belt but still somewhat depend on transmission fluid which seems to increase in volume at heated/spinning conditions. (She had 1 Qt. too much fluid, I drained it, drive home was fine)...at any rate as I understand SOME of the way transmissions work they tend to depend on fluids that seems to inflate in volume under particular conditions.

So different fluids will obviously react to "pressure" from the input signal differently...(for instance helium is a very good sound deadening gas, other gases might do the opposite)...

Just wondering out loud.
Since the development of the internet millions of people have died, the two may or may not be related.


pucho812

You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

Scodiddly

Re: Dumb idea or just possible/impossible?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2020, 10:05:33 PM »
You're describing a mechanical transformer.  Same amount of energy in and out, but you're trading force for motion.

iomegaman

Re: Dumb idea or just possible/impossible?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2020, 10:36:57 PM »
check this out

https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-News/20s/Radio-News-1929-05.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1cL7iuhHh-SxGfJu3gSjclqJ7nLNrUH2CeMXf0f54_Q58dcnIdbf2itvI

turn to the section labeled "giant speaker of 4 mile range" ;)

That reminds me of this Victor Auxetophone that at the time was extremely expensive...but it used compressed air and I think the needle opened a valve mainl sold to motels/etc it got very loud...I'm sure something like it could be built today with the compressor outside...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7SV65DFNy8
Since the development of the internet millions of people have died, the two may or may not be related.

gyraf

Re: Dumb idea or just possible/impossible?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2020, 09:09:43 AM »
+1 you're describing a mechanical transformer or gear - exactly like used in e.g. hydraulics..

/Jakob E.
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

JohnRoberts

Re: Dumb idea or just possible/impossible?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2020, 10:04:47 AM »
So I've been thinking a little outside the box...which is fine since I barely understand the box itself...

Here goes:

Suppose you have a coil/diaphragm connected to a chamber...inside the chamber you have some kind of fluid (or perhaps gas)...so the diaphragm needs to be some sort of "fluid proof" meaning that it needs to NOT be paper...on the other end of the chamber you have ANOTHER diaphragm connected to a coil but it is, oh lets say TWICE the size of the original coil/diaphragm...

Would inputting a signal on the first coil result in an AMPLIFIED signal on the second coil?

Could you hypothetically build a HYDRAULIC based mechanical amplifier?

Obviously your amplification would be limited to a certain ratio...but down that road by altering the tension of the fluid/gas could you possibly change the ratio?

What got me thinking about this was helping my youngest daughter this weekend she drove out from San Diego and kept getting a transmission warning light...by the time she got here I had  researched the newer CVT transmissions (which do not really use gears they use a metal belt but still somewhat depend on transmission fluid which seems to increase in volume at heated/spinning conditions. (She had 1 Qt. too much fluid, I drained it, drive home was fine)...at any rate as I understand SOME of the way transmissions work they tend to depend on fluids that seems to inflate in volume under particular conditions.

So different fluids will obviously react to "pressure" from the input signal differently...(for instance helium is a very good sound deadening gas, other gases might do the opposite)...

Just wondering out loud.
A rich area to study... hydraulics/fluid dynamics.

Speaking about audio I vaguely recall some old discussions about filling a box (chamber) with a gas other than air, to make a reverb with different characteristics, (I doubt it worked because speed of sound in a dense medium would be faster.)

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

gyraf

Re: Dumb idea or just possible/impossible?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2020, 10:13:16 AM »
slightly tangential, but yeah, we experimented with plate reverbs with different density gasses for different reverb times and feels. He was great for long bright ones. Also, just vacuuming the plate chamber worked really well. The rationale was that we were tired of the EMT140st damping plate only changing low-frequency reverb time, not the entire spectrum..

this off course inspired by the speakers filled with bags of such gasses to simulate larger volumes by slowing down sound speed..
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

squarewave

Re: Dumb idea or just possible/impossible?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2020, 11:48:25 AM »
I've thought about mounting reverb springs inside a PVC tube with a vacuum pump. But the point would be to reduce transmission of ambient noise and vibration and not change the sound because of air density.

gyraf

Re: Dumb idea or just possible/impossible?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2020, 03:19:04 PM »
Yes, spring reverbs arent as sensitive to air damping as plates..
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

iomegaman

Re: Dumb idea or just possible/impossible?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2020, 07:47:35 PM »
I've thought about mounting reverb springs inside a PVC tube with a vacuum pump. But the point would be to reduce transmission of ambient noise and vibration and not change the sound because of air density.

I like this idea, and if you went one step further and filled the PVC tube with helium you would get a really good sound isolation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxOzpPJbnTI&list=PLzrI14lOlSqeCgDH9zJb-qRKem9fTT2Tj&index=4&t=0s
Since the development of the internet millions of people have died, the two may or may not be related.


 

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