iomegaman

Tinnitus therapy...bimodal approach
« on: October 16, 2020, 02:58:32 PM »
So I have tinnitus...probably due to a Marshall Slant Back Stack and a JCM 2204 turned up during practice to overcome the drummer who was not in any kind of sound isolation...that or using power tools...at any rate I have a constant buzzing in my right ear around 15,120 kHz it sounds like a mosquito on a dirt bike running a chain saw...the only time I get any relief is when I am near the ocean...I've learned to ignore it but there are days when it is incredibly obnoxious.

So just saw this study coming out of Ireland/UK where they have developed a sort of dual path treatment that uses audio tones +wideband/and electrical stimulus to the tip of the tongue...

Study Here:

https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/new-research-could-help-millions-who-suffer-ringing-ears

I wonder why this actually works? How is it reprogramming the brain is it sort of a "Pavlovs" dog approach where the stimulus is either reinforcing pain/pleasure to tones?

As I understand tinnitus it is actually a product of missing follicle nerves in the ear...where certain frequencies have gone missing the brain actually creates them in spite of their absence in the environment...(my understanding could be off a bit)>>>

So you have these very fine hair-like strands in your ear and as audio brushes over them they impart an electrical impulse to the nerves that gets converted to a sound in your brain, where the strands go missing or are damaged the impulse becomes continuous because your brain cannot handle the vacuum it makes up the sound...

When I go to the ocean the sound level is pretty constant and near "white noise"...but pleasing...it seems to drown out the mosquito and his motor bike...

I wonder why tinnitus is not a low register issue...it only seems to be high frequencies...?

Anyway the study is fascinating and might point to a cure...they said some participants saw positive results for 12 months.(didn't give any specifics and I did not read the journal study included)
Since the development of the internet millions of people have died, the two may or may not be related.


Squeaky

Re: Tinnitus therapy...bimodal approach
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2020, 04:03:16 PM »
Thanks for posting this Iomegaman.

Problem (just a random article I found that seems to explain the problem)
"Neuroscience research has identified neural changes related to tinnitus that commence at the cochlear nucleus and extend to the auditory cortex and brain regions beyond. Maladaptive neural plasticity appears to underlie these neural changes, as it results in increased spontaneous firing rates and synchrony among neurons in central auditory structures that may generate the phantom percept." (Shore et al https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895692/)
 
Solution (from the abstract of the Neuromed (and others) article)
"Animal research has revealed that sound paired with electrical somatosensory stimulation can drive extensive plasticity within the brain for tinnitus treatment". (Conlon et al https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/12/564/eabb2830)

As long as you understand what they means by plasticity (in a medical sense) then the above should improve your understanding?

Like you I have tinnitus (both ears), I survived the AC30s and JTM50s played on 11 and but came undone tracking way too loudly in headphones. I am not sure what sort of tinnitus I have because at a certain threshold of sound pressure my ears start to hurt and the problem is exacerbated (ringing gets louder for a while).

The tinnitus can get to me in the middle of the night if I wake up, however, for some reason, when I am in the forest and it is dead quiet it doesn't seem to bother me (meaning I rarely pay attention to it).

I'll certainly be keeping an eye on any successful treatment. Hopefully houses need not be mortgaged.

iomegaman

Re: Tinnitus therapy...bimodal approach
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2020, 04:47:29 PM »
Thanks for posting this Iomegaman.


Like you I have tinnitus (both ears), I survived the AC30s and JTM50s played on 11 and but came undone tracking way too loudly in headphones. I am not sure what sort of tinnitus I have because at a certain threshold of sound pressure my ears start to hurt and the problem is exacerbated (ringing gets louder for a while).

The tinnitus can get to me in the middle of the night if I wake up, however, for some reason, when I am in the forest and it is dead quiet it doesn't seem to bother me (meaning I rarely pay attention to it).

I'll certainly be keeping an eye on any successful treatment. Hopefully houses need not be mortgaged.

SO here's two of us (doesn't make a quorum) and I have a friend who drove heavy equipment for years with no ear protection, he has it pretty bad ALL of us seem to get some kind of relief when we are out in "nature"...

He lives near the mountains and goes out a few times a month just to get some relief...I currently live in the desert so there isn't much I can do until it cools down a bit here to even get out in nature...

But I wonder...how much of tinnitus is "technology noise bleed" (for lack of a better word)...I know we cannot hear microwave stuff...or basically anything above 20kHz (or lower depending on age and damage)...but I wonder...are there resonant frequencies from things like wifi or cpu's/digital devices/crystal clocks/etc that might be bleeding into our hearing  range and our brains are amplifying those frequencies for a reason?

Brain plasticity is a fascinating study, my daughter who lives here is studying it for her masters...we've talked a lot about it and I doubt science has really appreciated how much it has contributed to our species evolution...(or ANY species for that matter, consider how many species have adapted to hunting/feeding in urban landscapes)...

I know there are some people who sleep with copper threaded sheets/pillow cases because they believe is blocks out wifi "noise"...I am on the fence...the copper thread stuff seems like a scam marketing idea...although I suppose on some level eliminating general tech noise would be good for us...

Returning to nature seems to point to some of that.
Since the development of the internet millions of people have died, the two may or may not be related.

Re: Tinnitus therapy...bimodal approach
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2020, 05:10:52 PM »
Make it three, I have high pitched tinnitus ringing in my left ear, seems to be around 8KHz or maybe higher, it is present all the time, I have learned to ignore it or at least accept it, I attribute it to long hours of loud monitoring while recording/mixing etc.. I can hear it all the time, recently I got my hearing tested, my right ear is golden, my left ear has a considerable drop in the 8KHz range, what the audiometrist explained to me is that the ringing might be masking those frequencies.

Since I no longer work in the studio business I don't care that much about the loss I have, I would prefer no ringing but meh, I can live with it but if you guys find something that works let me know, I am definitely interested.

crazydoc

Re: Tinnitus therapy...bimodal approach
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2020, 07:31:23 PM »
I've had tinnitus for years, with nothing specific to blame it on except aging (no wall of sound gigs, not in the field artillery.) My wife got it after a ruptured cerebral aneurysm/subarachnoid bleed. We just live with it. To my knowledge there has been no rigorously documented successful treatment - sort of hard to evaluate subjective phenomena, like evaluating pain. Maybe the above linked study will bear some fruit.

Meanwhile, maybe I'll try GeneralFuzz' app  https://www.generalfuzz.net/acrn/  while I stick a 9v battery on and off my tongue. He patterned his app after the Desyncra treatment - now this is found on their website:

Important information about your Desyncra® for Tinnitus therapy

Dear Sir/Madam,   In the event that your Desyncra® for Tinnitus iPod is no longer functional, we regret to inform you that Desyncra® for Tinnitus therapy can no longer be taken advantage of. Due to bureaucratic obstacles on the part of the licensor, it was not possible to maintain current connections. Unfortunately, all efforts made in this regard were in vain. For this reason, the app is no longer available and will be withdrawn from the market.   Unfortunately, no further information about this is available.   We ask that you please take note of this, and we wish you all the best!
  :D
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

Re: Tinnitus therapy...bimodal approach
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2020, 02:08:23 AM »

I wonder why tinnitus is not a low register issue...it only seems to be high frequencies...?


Sadly not true. I got a constant low frequency hum on my left ear and a high pitched sound on my right ear. Low frequency tinnitus is worse...

Thanks for posting this. My tinnitus is getting worse over the last years, I need help. :-\
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 02:15:30 AM by rock soderstrom »

ruffrecords

Re: Tinnitus therapy...bimodal approach
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2020, 04:03:17 AM »
My wife has had tinnitus for many years. About a decade ago I built her a white noise box. Just a dirt cheap crappy headphones IC rigged for wide open gain and open input. It produces a pleasant hiss in the headphones. When her tinnitus gets bad she wears it while she is reading. Seems to do the trick for a while but does not last more than a few hours.

A friend of mine in Australia also has tinnitus and a few years back he was engaged in some research which used  selected tones and noise as an improved version of my noise box. Not sure what became of it.

Looks like the new research is more promising.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

SKJGProject

I used to date a blind girl. Her name was ::… ..:.: .:::. .::.. ….: .:.::

Re: Tinnitus therapy...bimodal approach
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2020, 05:10:44 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgkPOGD6gw

I've tried it, but it doesn't work for me.
 
https://www.generalfuzz.net/acrn/ is interesting, I can use the static sound to suppress my tinnitus sounds, unfortunately with an even louder external sound. The resulting sound sequence produces really strange results for me, I'm not sure if that's a good thing  :o

I keep experimenting and look forward to more tips, experiences and ideas.

Re: Tinnitus therapy...bimodal approach
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2020, 09:24:03 AM »
Like I said, I have constant high-pitched tinnitus in my left ear and my conclusion was that life is too good and too short to be bothering about a ringing in the ear, so I just ignore it or learn to live with it.


 

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