hooman

High end tube pre amp
« on: November 30, 2020, 10:26:13 AM »
 tube preamp can  be very simple  .one tube like 12au7 in any  channel. quality  of sound depend to  tube...cap s...but high end tube preamp is different .sound of this pre amp is high  quality  and low noise very nachural and live sound .i  have experience  on tubes in preamp and power amp .one of my customer..  order  211 se amp . and phono preamp for turn table .211 amp was finish. sound is very good .how i
can  use simple  circuit 12au7 whit 211 amp ::)
start to serch .....  :(

« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 10:29:56 AM by hooman »


hooman

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2020, 11:21:42 AM »
shindo  lab  in japan made  expensive. tube pre amp .but no  schematic in net .just  inside pictures. whit these pictures maybe  receive to answers . how to  make  a professional  circuit? :)

hooman

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2020, 11:28:23 AM »

gyraf

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2020, 11:38:09 AM »
The G9 project is considered high-end over here  ;D - uses ECC82 and all that too..

/Jakob E.

edit: Aah, you mean hifi-type preamp. We don't do much of these over here, quite different reality from where we dig around..
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

ruffrecords

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2020, 12:05:22 PM »
The quality of a circuit depends as much on the design as it does on the components. Unfortunately, so called hi end pre-amps all to often forget the design aspect and concentrate only only expensive components.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

hooman

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2020, 10:12:54 PM »
The quality of a circuit depends as much on the design as it does on the components. Unfortunately, so called hi end pre-amps all to often forget the design aspect and concentrate only only expensive components.

Cheers

Ian
hi fi  is different .  high end  preamp in hi fi  need moor  skills . no feedback  in     design .need special caps and special tubes and others  .hifi pre amp can not be circuit with more gain .if  use feed bake line ...sound  will change .no body use this for music listening .
please see the picture of shindo hifi preamp .

hooman

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2020, 10:19:23 PM »

hooman

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2020, 10:29:44 PM »
6aw8 was  tube  in tv .please  compare  jan philips 6aw8   sound with  rca 6aw8 .or other brands . to day 6aw8
is cheap .but you can jan philips 6aw8 as expensive tubes in driver .hi fi circuit needs more experience.
shindo used pcl86 in out put of hifi expensive  preamp .customer can not change tubes  with other brands .
for this pre we need telefunken ef80 or ef800.no philips or others .
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 10:48:46 PM by hooman »

hooman

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2020, 11:01:23 PM »

Shindo Vosne-Romanee



no pcb .....ground wire is  important .high end in tube geer is not just name .not more money.it is very vrey special . 


Heikki

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2020, 12:21:09 AM »
hi fi  is different .  high end  preamp in hi fi  need moor  skills . no feedback  in     design .need special caps and special tubes and others  .hifi pre amp can not be circuit with more gain .if  use feed bake line ...sound  will change .no body use this for music listening .
please see the picture of shindo hifi preamp .

lol


Ricardus

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2020, 12:57:32 AM »
That is certainly one of the most beautiful point-to-point jobs I have ever seen.
Audio mastering for hire..

ruffrecords

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2020, 03:48:52 AM »
hi fi  is different .  high end  preamp in hi fi  need moor  skills . no feedback  in     design .need special caps and special tubes and others  .hifi pre amp can not be circuit with more gain .if  use feed bake line ...sound  will change .no body use this for music listening .
please see the picture of shindo hifi preamp .

So please explain why the circuit you posted has feedback around both stages.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

gyraf

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2020, 04:28:54 AM »
Yes hifi is different.

But hifi is not different from pro audio in the nature of it's technology.

The really important difference is how it is marketed - hifi is based on being "talked up", i.e. generating pre-disposed concepts about what you should perceive when you listen.

This, combined with the human auditory system being very sensitive to suggestion, creates the wide variety of impossibly priced yet technologically pathetic units in the hifi market. Impressive pricing being among the best motivators for wanting to hear certain suggested details, it goes without saying that you'll soon have an inverse way of setting prices.

The thing that makes this so complicated to discuss is that the effect is not a vague "wanna-believe" placebo - but originating in the so sensitive auditory system it is often taking the form of near-hallucinations. The mechanics depends on the elaborate "fill out missing information" in auditory system. Think of the intrinsic auditory suggestibility as closer related to hypnosis than to persuasion - and the guy claiming to be able to easily hear the difference between standard and expensive speaker cables does not lie to you - or even to himself (!) - and the discussion naturally gets emotional and heated if it involves someone questioning the validity of your perception. There has been fMRi studies that show traces of "real" perception at brain neuronal level correlating with believed stimuli (I think it was "direction" of cables), but, alas, not correlating with reality.

This is also the mechanism you experience when you do that complex mix with the whole band sitting there suggesting and stressing you - once in a while you grab the EQ and turn it until it does what you want, then move on with the mix. Only later to discover that the "in"-button wasn't pressed... you'd have sworn that it reacted like it should. This is the stuff that hifi is built of.

And then there's the whole taxonomy of the hifi community - that (when you look closely) does not seem to be about classifying and conveying information, but rather about building consensus to support suggested perceptions. Not too dissimilar from astrology actually

All this brings me to a question I've been meaning to ask in this group for a while:

"How do you perceive the ethics of selling hifi-type gear? Can it be done right? How?"

Looking at the market, I see that there is probably consumer room for e.g. my linear tilting way of doing tone controls - but at the same time I fear being sucked into dishonesty when describing such a unit in terms that resonate with the right audience.

A friend of mine (who shall remain unnamed) that runs both a pro-audio and a hifi brand tells me about how he always worries about doing exhibitions on the hifi shows - because there will be people coming up constantly, almost literally, begging him to come up with complex lies about his (very decent) products, never, ever, being satisfied with the simple truth. Says it's a relief to be attending pro audio shows in contrast. Unfortunately, he says, the hifi brings in so much more money than the pro audio that he literally feels caught in there, and end up supporting the paradigme..

Let's not make a flame war out of this but:

Your thoughts?

/Jakob E.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 04:50:54 AM by gyraf »
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

Gus

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2020, 07:27:21 AM »
Jakob

I think HiFi is solved except for speakers and the room.

I don't get single ended tube amps or PP tube amps or using tubes at all for HiFi.




shabtek

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2020, 08:09:24 AM »
Excellent post Gyraf
"really fine players do not use stomp boxes or master volume, they match the amp to the room and turn it up to 11.  Stevie Ray, BB King, Albert King, Duane Allman, Dicky Betts, Louis Armstrong"
   -CJ

ruffrecords

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2020, 08:37:28 AM »
Our own market segment is not immune to the hype. marketing and voodoo experienced by the the hi-fi fraternity. A quick trip to Gearslutz will admirably demonstrate this. However, unlike the hi-fi market, in the pro market there is at some proportion that aims to create very high quality, very highly specified equipment.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

hooman

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2020, 10:11:52 AM »
Our own market segment is not immune to the hype. marketing and voodoo experienced by the the hi-fi fraternity. A quick trip to Gearslutz will admirably demonstrate this. However, unlike the hi-fi market, in the pro market there is at some proportion that aims to create very high quality, very highly specified equipment.

Cheers

Ian
I'm sure you are skilled. You spent a lot of time designing on the preamp and audio circuits .as you know hifi  in our  rooms is way for listening to  lovely music albums   .shindo make dreams ...
 In 1977, he  start his own Laboratory ,  building amplifiers and pre-amplifiers by hand... from vintage and new old stock (NOS) parts. Vitamin Q or the Orange Drop...... to increasingly rare vacuum tubes, sourced from such electronic manufacturers as Western Electric, RCA, Mullard, Philips, Siemens, Tungsram, Amperex.
shindo has experience in tube diy .so  he buy special  nos parts from usa  .







zayance

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2020, 10:18:19 AM »

hooman

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2020, 11:14:18 AM »
all of old  hifi had ton control  .to day  modern tube amps never use ... . customer knows  ;)  ?tubes return back again ....by market  or demand  ..    i working  20 years for panasonic and sony they don't like tubes in their market .   ...  costumer buy  analog source .........full ranges comeback....lother in expensive model  ::)
this market ?no ....
modern design in tubes  hifi  gear  talking about ccs ... and mosfet high voltage regulators.some designer like shindo...make jewelry in sound .if anybody thinks .... it is  so easy ...  please lets to build and check sound . ;)

hooman

Re: High end tube pre amp
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2020, 11:48:55 AM »

power supply is simple .but very very important  .ac transformer should be  ei or m core .no trodial .dont chose small transformer .
for  choosing 6x4  please  see uk  nos 6x4 .very important !!!
stare grand shod be one 3cm  hole hole near power trans .
first cap is 33 mfd .no need to oil .japanese cap....nippon.
mosfet work as ripple filter .
shindo  use....tow sparet +b..in any lin use 220mfd /450 v   from nippon .standard voltage for pre amp  tubes is +250 v.dont forget . :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 12:52:24 PM by hooman »


 

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