Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #140 on: January 12, 2021, 05:43:42 AM »
Many people have remarked how senseless the raid on the Capitol was in terms of achieving the assumed objective of somehow forcing them to hand the election over to DT. 

Very true but I don't think that's the reason why he chose to foment the mob.

What he has seemingly managed to do is put the US government in one hell of a rock in a hard place.

If they don't impeach him then they have set a new and disturbing precedent that effectively says "If you're POTUS and want to do as you please, no problem, just wait until there's "Only 13 days left" and then have at it - incite insurrection, commit treason, destroy the Capitol, terrorize elected leaders - no problem, you won't get impeached" (you can blame it on being "mentally unfit").    It also sends a message that we (USA) will tolerate such behavior unpunished . . . . .under certain circumstances, and therein lies the sucker punch.

Those certain circumstances would be, as has already been stated by those in opposition to impeachment, for cases where doing so might create more harm than good in the long run.  So, he has managed to create enough fear and dread to force this most uncomfortable, and outrageous situation.   This would be like the courts saying to someone like Charles Manson, "We're not going to punish you for your crimes because you have so much influence that it would cause more problems than prosecuting you would solve"  (so uh, have a happy mayhem and murder spree at your discretion).  And you can bet your last dime that his followers are watching the outcome of this with sharp eyes trained on the bottom line verdict where no impeachment sends the message that they were in the right as "the chosen ones".  (ie a victory) 

I'm not going to pretend to know who was who among that group that stormed into the Capitol because it is already clear that there were many different stripes there unified under a common cause.  DT loves chaos by his own admission, so the bickering over which groups were there and which weren't is playing right into that trap. Stay clear of that in order to remain objective.

From what I can see, this is all about the one thing DT has always been highly skilled at - gaining leverage over a situation.   If he is not impeached then we (assumedly) get less protests according to the reasoning of some, but he is free to run again in 2024.  If he is impeached then he is peculiarly free to pursue other goals and free from the obligations of mounting a 2024 campaign which his supporters would be expecting.  But, it's those other plans and goals he may have that are most worrisome at this point but that's another discussion topic.   A rejected ex-POTUS in exile could be a dangerous thing to the USA.



hodad

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #141 on: January 12, 2021, 12:19:44 PM »
“As of 5 January 2021, FBI Norfolk received information indicating calls for violence in response to ‘unlawful lockdowns’ to begin on 6 January 2021 in Washington. D.C.,” the document says. “An online thread discussed specific calls for violence to include stating ‘Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in, and blood from their BLM and Pantifa slave soldiers being spilled. Get violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally, or a protest. Go there ready for war. We get our President or we die. NOTHING else will achieve this goal.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-intelligence/2021/01/12/30d12748-546b-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

living sounds

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #142 on: January 12, 2021, 07:10:19 PM »
"Sen. Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, has told associates he believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and that he is pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party,” the New York Times reports.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/us/mcconnell-impeachment-trump-mc.html?searchResultPosition=1

cyrano

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #143 on: January 12, 2021, 07:52:54 PM »
Ouch...  :o
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

dbonin

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #144 on: January 13, 2021, 05:37:28 AM »
"...all eight of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the military, including chair Mark Milley, today reminded service members of their oath to the Constitution and warned against “violence, sedition and insurrection.” They reminded members of the military that “any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our tradition, values, and oath; it is against the law.” "

It's scary when you know some of your troops may have already gone over the line... they are warning them to stay clear of the inauguration on Jan 20th.
Stand off to the side of the unit, out of the line of fire.  Flip the ON switch...  "Watch for flames and sniff for smoke."


scott2000

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #146 on: January 16, 2021, 09:32:25 AM »
It's a mess. It's known that , for instance, in many jails that there are areas for races and there is trouble if you don't stay where "you're supposed to". And it's considered normal and accepted. There are leaders in all of these groups inside.  Madness. The jail system encourages this it seems.

This is an epidemic . I'd guess a worldwide one in some cases too. Although I suspect Germany may not have the same issues with policing, it would be surprising to hear the US is alone in it's madness. But IDK...

living sounds

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #147 on: January 16, 2021, 10:06:00 AM »

This is an epidemic . I'd guess a worldwide one in some cases too. Although I suspect Germany may not have the same issues with policing, it would be surprising to hear the US is alone in it's madness. But IDK...

Germany has issues with policing, though nothing like the US. Obviously, people with a certain world view select for this kind of job in the first place, so certain issues are more or less to be expected. And although there is a stringent selection process in place and several years of training are required to become a police officer in Germany, nevertheless excessive police violence does happen (and courts often let them get away with it in ways non-police officers don't) and right-wing-extremist sympathizers or even networks among officers get uncovered quite frequently.

living sounds

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #148 on: January 20, 2021, 05:48:50 PM »

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #149 on: January 21, 2021, 08:29:24 AM »
Omg...i can't believe Trump is gone. It's like a new day...


iturnknobs

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #150 on: January 21, 2021, 08:49:39 AM »
Omg...i can't believe Trump is gone. It's like a new day...
+1
     The temperature already appears to have been turned down. Here's some info pointing to a similar effect(at bottom)...
If only his supporters could have stood up and spoken out about "chumming the waters", we may have not reached such a "boiling over" point... good riddance.

https://wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/international/73-drop-in-election-misinformation-since-trump-s-twitter-ban-report-121011800211_1.html
Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #151 on: January 21, 2021, 09:42:25 AM »
Omg...i can't believe Trump is gone. It's like a new day...

Feels like I've just taken a 250 pound sh*t
D. J. H.

cyrano

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #152 on: January 21, 2021, 12:05:10 PM »
Here's an American who explains the feeling I had when I wrote 'healing" much better than I ever could:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoP9ufM3bjw
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

hodad

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #153 on: January 21, 2021, 03:26:50 PM »
Here's an American who explains the feeling I had when I wrote 'healing" much better than I ever could:


Didn't watch (it was slow loading & I lost patience--sorry.)  In the real world of US politics, Republicans are still putting party over people.  Mitch McConnell still cares more about himself than he does about accomplishing anything.  As I've indicated before,  I'm willing to listen to apologies and admissions of error from GOP types; I think many DC Dems, even many of the liberal ones, would be willing to work with republicans as long as they actually wanted to do something besides obstruct Democrats' agenda. 

I'm completely done with Republican BS;  we've been down this road before, and with many of the same bad actors.  Once they show they're honest dealers who are willing to put country before party, then we can talk.


 

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