hodad

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2021, 10:48:05 AM »
but finally to realize Trump actually encouraged a mob of his supporters to attack the US Congress while in session, storm and occupy the US Capital, and then to actually conspire and support the coup attempt,

You give Trump supporters (most of them) too much credit.  What they're doing right now is what we see in our own midst:  playing down the seriousness of the event, pretending that most Trump supporters are innocent in this, playing the "both sides" game, acting as if supporting  Trump while frowning at his crassness and wannabe dictatorial excesses excuses you from complicity.  Very, very few Republicans are going to be taking that long, hard look in the mirror this morning; instead they'll be looking for rationalizations and excuses, clutching at any argument, no matter how weak. 


Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2021, 11:45:17 AM »
Really hard to read that a few folks on here are playing this down or spinning it away from reality. 

Your President incited a mob to march on the capitol to 'stop the steal'.   

I'm seeing radicalization on a massive scale in the Republic.  This stuff never ends well. 
 




 



 

 

D. J. H.

Script

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2021, 12:13:13 PM »
BTW, if anyone has photos/video or knows people who have photos/video clearly showing those who went into the Capitol, might they not want to consider handing them over as evidence to the authorities?
 




 



 

 
[/quote]

living sounds

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2021, 12:55:15 PM »
BTW, if anyone has photos/video or knows people who have photos/video clearly showing those who went into the Capitol, might they not want to consider handing them over as evidence to the authorities?

Yes, but what authorities? The policemen who made selfies with the mob?

I hope there is enough "deep state" (= intelligent, rational minded, small d democrat patriotic people) left in the institutions to deal with this.

Will radical Trump appointed judges have a say wrt to punishing the perpetrators?

This is far worse than John and others on the right can imagine. It is a society (or rather, a significant chunk of of it) in deep decline and the crumbling of norms and institutions we are witnessing is extremely alarming.

living sounds

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2021, 01:05:21 PM »
You know, the fact that Trump refused to call in the National Guard and told the rioters "We love you"...

"Treason" is the word for that.

pucho812

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2021, 01:12:13 PM »
You guys.

I should know better to engage people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
I wish you all well, we may disagree but it happens. Perhaps one day we will be past such arguments.  Until then enjoy.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

dmp

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2021, 01:15:20 PM »
The FBI has a webpage for submissions.
And there are a lot of people archiving the social media posts by the MAGA folks with image/video evidence of their own felonies.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/washingtondc/news/fbi-seeking-information-related-to-violent-activity-at-the-us-capitol-building

hodad

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2021, 01:31:14 PM »
You guys.

I should know better to engage people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
I wish you all well, we may disagree but it happens. Perhaps one day we will be past such arguments.  Until then enjoy.

When you make unfounded claims with zero evidence to back them up, and all available evidence is contrary to your claims, then maybe you're just wrong.  On this day (and yesterday as well), my tolerance for rumor, innuendo, unsupported conjecture, bothsidesism and false equivalencies is somewhere near zero.  I'm sorry you have no evidence to support your argument, and even sorrier that you seem incapable of recognizing this. 

crazydoc

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2021, 01:36:07 PM »
Now we all have a clear picture of the honkey MAGA crowd who've climbed out of the basket of deplorables - they're like characters out of the night of the living dead, with the same intellectual and moral capacity. Poster children for Homo ignoramus.
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

hodad

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2021, 02:14:02 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/07/no-theres-no-substantive-evidence-that-capitol-riot-was-spurred-by-antifa/

I've only skimmed it, but it seems like a pretty good debunking.

In a statement to The Washington Post, XRVision executive Yaacov Apelbaum denied that his firm had provided any such analysis.

“XRVision didn’t generate any composites or detection imagery for the Washington Times nor for a ‘retired military officer,’ ” Apelbaum said, “and did not authorize them to make any such representations.”
What happened, Apelbaum explained, was that the firm “performed an analysis on the footage” and, in doing so, was able to identify three people.

“We concluded that two of individuals … were affiliated with the Maryland Skinheads and the National Socialist Movements,” the firm determined. “These two are known Nazi organizations, they are not Antifa. The third individual identified … was an actor with some QAnon promotion history. Again, no Antifa identification was made for him either.”
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 02:17:07 PM by hodad »


Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2021, 03:25:26 PM »
I'll address some of Pucho's points:

<actually I got photos from people who went.   and believe it or not there were some POC there.>

Here's a link from the DC police of pics of people inside the Capitol building they are trying to identify
https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/publication/attachments/POIs%20of%20Interest_1.7.21.pdf

I see a few Hispanic faces, but nary a black person. Not one. I looked at each pic very closely.

BTW, if any of your friends are in those pics, the reward is $1000 per person identified. Easy money.

<But more over, I am not surprised by any of the actions that went on today. people were pushed for 4 years.
lets go over some of the great quotes of the last 4 years See if we can guess who said what

1. "Protesters should not let up" - KH

2. "There needs to be unrest in the streets" - AP( no not the associated press)

3. "If you see anybody from that cabinet in a restaurant , in a department store, at a gas station, you go out and create a crowd and you push back on them and you tell them they are not welcome anymore, anywhere" - MW

4. "I just don't know why there aren't uprisings all over this country. Maybe there will be" - NP>

To be 110% clear - I don't support property destruction, showing up at people's private homes, or physical intimidation as "protest". That's bullsh!t. By anyone or any group - MAGA, BLM, Antifa, Proud Boys, Girl Scouts, etc. But peaceful protest is a bedrock freedom of the USA and democracy. Lumping both together when politically expedient is disingenuous at best, evil at worst.

I don't believe the people that rioted yesterday represent my many, many (I live in Texas) conservative yet sane Republican friends, anymore than the people that rioted in Portland represent my many liberal yet sane Democrat friends. But justifying criminal behavior because "they were pushed for 4 years" doesn't seem far from BLM "we were pushed for 300 years". Neither excuse justifies riots, property damage and injuries to people. Period.

<as for dismissed cases yes there were 60 of them.  Some for legit reasons others for things like it's too late.>

Agreed. Some were dismissed for timing, standing, etc. But I keep asking "where is this mountain of evidence of fraud? Show me the beef". Bill Barr, as big a Trump boot licker as there ever was, said there's no credible evidence. Is he also a QAnon pedophile? Me thinks not. Again, WHERE'S THE F*CKING EVIDENCE?!!! Yeah yeah, the lamestream media won't report it. I don't agree, but for argument's sake let's assume that's true. Trump's raised over $200M since the election via over 100 solicitation emails. His campaign has tons of money to run ads, put up websites, etc to expose the voluminous evidence. Please direct me to where I can see the evidence.

It's telling that at the House swearing in of the Republicans that won in AZ, not a peep from Cruz, who was present. So the election is corrupt for Trump but worked fine for the elected Republicans?

<my silver lining to it all  is the pendulum will swing back in the other direction. I have seen that happen in my lifetime here on earth.>
I hope we find a way to all meet in the middle again on some very important issues to our Nation and the world. Wildly swinging from one extreme to another isn't the solution.

<I can only hope that the Dems deliver something good and not give 10 million to Pakistan for gender studies. Oh wait too late.>

Agreed! I suspect that Paki deal was a necessary payoff to someone and the "gender research" thing is a ruse. They really should have come up with a better story.

But bringing up "gov't money giveaways" is a slippery slope amigo. Used to be the Republican party was the party of fiscal conservatism. We're $2 trillion more in debt than when Trump took office due to his tax cuts for the wealthy. Bush/Cheney enacted TWO tax cuts DURING WARTIME. Had that even been suggested during WWII theywould have been tried for treason. I have a very hard time connecting the modern Rep party to that of Ronald Reagan. If Ronnie were alive today, he'd be labelled a RINO by Trump, Cruz, Navarro, etc. Sad.

BTW, Lest you think I'm some Ivy League NY/LA elite, I'm a high school grad from small town Texas. If the Republican party could refrain from telling my brother who he can marry and my daughters what they can do with their bodies, I'd likely be a Repub, IF they could truly represent real core Repub values. But the Tea Party started that decline that has brought us here.

<But the best part I see is how we all have fallen into the us vs us when it should be us vs them.>
Agreed!!! Who benefits from Americans being divided against fellow Americans? China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, etc.
 
<We elected them lets hope they do some good.>
Agreed!


« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 03:33:20 PM by AusTex64 »

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2021, 03:26:49 PM »
You know, the fact that Trump refused to call in the National Guard and told the rioters "We love you"...

"Treason" is the word for that.

AGREED!!

crazydoc

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2021, 03:58:44 PM »
https://twitter.com/i/status/1346919171595137025

Revolution is such a biatch. Wah, wah, wah.
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.

pucho812

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2021, 04:24:14 PM »
I'll address some of Pucho's points:

<actually I got photos from people who went.   and believe it or not there were some POC there.>

Here's a link from the DC police of pics of people inside the Capitol building they are trying to identify
https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/publication/attachments/POIs%20of%20Interest_1.7.21.pdf

I see a few Hispanic faces, but nary a black person. Not one. I looked at each pic very closely.

BTW, if any of your friends are in those pics, the reward is $1000 per person identified. Easy money.

<But more over, I am not surprised by any of the actions that went on today. people were pushed for 4 years.
lets go over some of the great quotes of the last 4 years See if we can guess who said what

1. "Protesters should not let up" - KH

2. "There needs to be unrest in the streets" - AP( no not the associated press)

3. "If you see anybody from that cabinet in a restaurant , in a department store, at a gas station, you go out and create a crowd and you push back on them and you tell them they are not welcome anymore, anywhere" - MW

4. "I just don't know why there aren't uprisings all over this country. Maybe there will be" - NP>

To be 110% clear - I don't support property destruction, showing up at people's private homes, or physical intimidation as "protest". That's bullsh!t. By anyone or any group - MAGA, BLM, Antifa, Proud Boys, Girl Scouts, etc. But peaceful protest is a bedrock freedom of the USA and democracy. Lumping both together when politically expedient is disingenuous at best, evil at worst.

I don't believe the people that rioted yesterday represent my many, many (I live in Texas) conservative yet sane Republican friends, anymore than the people that rioted in Portland represent my many liberal yet sane Democrat friends. But justifying criminal behavior because "they were pushed for 4 years" doesn't seem far from BLM "we were pushed for 300 years". Neither excuse justifies riots, property damage and injuries to people. Period.

<as for dismissed cases yes there were 60 of them.  Some for legit reasons others for things like it's too late.>

Agreed. Some were dismissed for timing, standing, etc. But I keep asking "where is this mountain of evidence of fraud? Show me the beef". Bill Barr, as big a Trump boot licker as there ever was, said there's no credible evidence. Is he also a QAnon pedophile? Me thinks not. Again, WHERE'S THE F*CKING EVIDENCE?!!! Yeah yeah, the lamestream media won't report it. I don't agree, but for argument's sake let's assume that's true. Trump's raised over $200M since the election via over 100 solicitation emails. His campaign has tons of money to run ads, put up websites, etc to expose the voluminous evidence. Please direct me to where I can see the evidence.

It's telling that at the House swearing in of the Republicans that won in AZ, not a peep from Cruz, who was present. So the election is corrupt for Trump but worked fine for the elected Republicans?

<my silver lining to it all  is the pendulum will swing back in the other direction. I have seen that happen in my lifetime here on earth.>
I hope we find a way to all meet in the middle again on some very important issues to our Nation and the world. Wildly swinging from one extreme to another isn't the solution.

<I can only hope that the Dems deliver something good and not give 10 million to Pakistan for gender studies. Oh wait too late.>

Agreed! I suspect that Paki deal was a necessary payoff to someone and the "gender research" thing is a ruse. They really should have come up with a better story.

But bringing up "gov't money giveaways" is a slippery slope amigo. Used to be the Republican party was the party of fiscal conservatism. We're $2 trillion more in debt than when Trump took office due to his tax cuts for the wealthy. Bush/Cheney enacted TWO tax cuts DURING WARTIME. Had that even been suggested during WWII theywould have been tried for treason. I have a very hard time connecting the modern Rep party to that of Ronald Reagan. If Ronnie were alive today, he'd be labelled a RINO by Trump, Cruz, Navarro, etc. Sad.

BTW, Lest you think I'm some Ivy League NY/LA elite, I'm a high school grad from small town Texas. If the Republican party could refrain from telling my brother who he can marry and my daughters what they can do with their bodies, I'd likely be a Repub, IF they could truly represent real core Repub values. But the Tea Party started that decline that has brought us here.

<But the best part I see is how we all have fallen into the us vs us when it should be us vs them.>
Agreed!!! Who benefits from Americans being divided against fellow Americans? China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, etc.
 
<We elected them lets hope they do some good.>
Agreed!

Right on. I never said I approve of their behavior, I said it was expected. Ever see a person be a jerk to a dog and then wonder why they got bit by the dog?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 10:37:13 PM by pucho812 »
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

iturnknobs

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2021, 04:46:03 PM »
The blowhard in chief is channeling his inner Hillary and still claiming he won. There is no question that the deck was stacked against him, with numerous examples of unfairness, but that horse has left the barn so time to move on.
This is the type of language(fake news) that perpetuates our country's issues. If you were actually wanting the people to heal, you would stop the nonsense.
By now even he should understand that words have consequences.
Not a chance. Immediate removal is the only remedy.
Our entire system is designed to provide an orderly transfer of power, and it looks like it is working once again.
Disagreed. Republicans STILL voted to overturn the election after yesterday's sh*tshow.

Trump must go. Not January 20th. Today.

Continue to stand beside your tribe.

Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2021, 04:55:35 PM »
They reported in news here D.T.s social media accounts were swiftly closed down , apparently he did manage to use another persons account to continue his rawmaishing though. Im not versed in the legalities but a charge of 'Incitement to violence' would seem like a better bet than a charge of treason if that even exists in the US.
I guess one upshot of this whole debacle is any of Trumps relations with aspirations of getting into the white house in the future might as well forget it. Without rubbing anyones face in the dung I guess the people who extended their support to DT on the basis of party politics might well reflect on their 'blind faith' .I've talked to a few people of the republican persuasion from the US who are disgusted and deeply imbarressed by what took place yesterday .

Numpty Trumpty had a great fall , all the kings horses and all the kings men couldnt be arsed to put him back together again .

living sounds

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2021, 05:18:59 PM »
Right on. I never said I approve of their behavior, I said it was expected. Ever see a person be a jerk to a dog and then wonder why the got bit by the dog?

Exactly, people who get mistreaded will at some point start to defend themselves. You got it! And that's what Black Lives Matter is all about. So why didn't you share this insight of yours with us in the summer?

hodad

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2021, 05:37:58 PM »
But justifying criminal behavior because "they were pushed for 4 years" doesn't seem far from BLM "we were pushed for 300 years".
This right here.  I realize you're largely echoing sentiment of others that feel they were somehow "oppressed"(??), I guess, during the Trump years. 
They held opinions that weren't very popular, their attitudes & behavior were downright hostile to others, many behaved boorishly and with a Trump-endorsed sense of white entitlement, and they clung to a set of beliefs in easily-disproven nonsense. 
I assure you that African-Americans were "pushed" far more in the last 4 years than any white Trump supporter was during the last 4 years.  It's not as if systemic racism suddenly vanished when Trump got elected--if anything, it got worse. 
As I pointed out way up thread, yesterday was a perfect example of white privilege.  If it had been BLM, protestors would never have gotten close to the steps, much less the building--cops treat the white protesters differently.  And the white protesters believe they're "entitled" to do this because it's "their" country (never mind that millions of them have roots in this country that don't extend nearly as far back as many African Americans and hispanics that they consider "less than" real Americans),  and it's their "right" to "take their country back." 
White privilege with a strong sense of entitlement.  As you may be able to tell, I have little patience for it these days. 
I'm not saying that's how you view the world, but you did a really nice job of conveying the attitude of those around you, and it really needs to be called out.  Thank you.

pucho812

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2021, 06:14:17 PM »
Exactly, people who get mistreaded will at some point start to defend themselves. You got it! And that's what Black Lives Matter is all about. So why didn't you share this insight of yours with us in the summer?
Because the data  on blm does not suggest that.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

living sounds

Re: The enemys of democracy
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2021, 06:33:06 PM »
Because the data  on blm does not suggest that.

OK, that's enough. You're a true believer, I am done discussing with you here. It's pointless.

Please vacate my thread - thank you.


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
43 Replies
5125 Views
Last post November 21, 2018, 07:55:56 PM
by JohnRoberts