PermO

Polycarbonate Film Caps
« on: March 16, 2021, 11:50:29 AM »
I've always liked what polycarbonate film caps do in an audio circuit.
I've been using an old batch I scored 20 years ago for my DIY projects.

Thingking these are long gone and bye bye...

I found they are still being made;
https://www.ecicaps.com/film-capacitors/mc-series/

Has anyone ever used these ?
Know these ?

Are they crazy expensive ?  ;D
"It's very important that you run trough the door, not trough the wall" - Sadhguru


Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2021, 02:29:56 PM »
Interesting. I'm also curious about the price.

JohnRoberts

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2021, 02:31:13 PM »
what is it that you like about them..?

My old favorite was polystyrene for their neutral (clean) characteristic. The modern substitute for polystyrene is NPO/COG ceramic.

JR
Cancel the "cancel culture", do not participate in mob hatred.

PermO

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2021, 03:30:41 PM »
I've always found that caps can have an imprint on the sound of a device.

And I don't want that.

I feel there's less of an imprint going on with these, they just sound better to me.

Now this is all subjective, I simply go by what my ears tell me.

25 Years ago I started building DIY tube amps, and in my town was this DIY hifi shop, they designed tube amps and speakers, you could buy kits and it was an electronics parts store aimed at audio specific.
They always used polycarbonate film capacitors for coupling caps and speaker filters and the stuff they build sounded amazing. So I got these caps from them and simply always used these in audio circuits ever since.

But I'm running out in the 400V department...

I've tried Wima MKP, as I see these get a lot of use in high end builds... not that they are bad, but I'm not a huge fan  :(

"It's very important that you run trough the door, not trough the wall" - Sadhguru

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2021, 08:33:56 AM »
Those caps you showed look a lot like Russian made paper in oils with metal/glass hermetic sealing.
They can be found at a reasonable price on ebay , I havent used them myself although I have seen a bunch someone else ordered , very high quality military surplus . 

PermO

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2021, 09:28:34 AM »
I never tried PIO.

I like the fact that these are new high quality polycarbonate film caps, a thing of the past.

I checked the stock (MC12 series) and they seem to have every cap I need for my build at 400V rating, I'll send an email to the Ireland office to see if I can get a quote on some.

"It's very important that you run trough the door, not trough the wall" - Sadhguru

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2021, 09:57:25 AM »
I never tried PIO.

I like the fact that these are new high quality polycarbonate film caps, a thing of the past.

I checked the stock (MC12 series) and they seem to have every cap I need for my build at 400V rating, I'll send an email to the Ireland office to see if I can get a quote on some.

Cool, let us know please.

rackmonkey

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2021, 01:01:27 PM »
I have always been a fan of polycarbonate myself, and have bought several batches of these EC brand caps over the past couple of years. They seem well made and consistent and I’ve been satisfied with them.


Curious where they get their stock of dielectric grade polycarbonate. It was my understanding that that particular plastic went out of production in the early 00s.


What’s nice about polycarbonate dielectric is that it’s very volumetrically efficient, so caps of a given size are much smaller than polypropylene or polystyrene of the same specs. It’s about as efficient as polyester, without polyester’s shortcomings in audio applications. I usually use Q value measurements to identify old, unknown caps. While Q has limited utility as a figure of merit in audio applications, it’s not coincidental that higher Q generally correlates to dielectrics that are more desirable in audio (particularly filter applications). PP and PS film caps will generally have 8 - 15 times higher Q than polyester for a given capacitance. For PC, it’s only slightly less. And PC just sounds really good to my ears.


All that to say, PC is nice because you get only slightly lower performance than PS but at much higher volumetric efficiency (meaning an equivalent cap will be quite a bit smaller). And you can find more larger value caps with higher voltage ratings than you ever will with PS.

The problem with C0G/NP0 is that you can hardly find any values above 10nF in through hole. Sometimes you can find Kemet brand at up to 100nF, but it’s not common anymore.


PS is still my favorite for filters, but I’ll use polycarb any day.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 01:12:14 PM by rackmonkey »
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

PermO

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2021, 04:40:08 PM »
Cool, let us know please.

 :-X

I just got an email from the Ireland office.
You can order these from them, no problem, stocklist is on the website.
They come at a price though  :o
These are high end industrial caps and cost about $ 100,- each... and up.
(0.1uF / 1uF / 0.47uF 400V rated)

They produce the polycarbonate film themselves, a costly proces.

So not hobbyist territory I guess  :-X
"It's very important that you run trough the door, not trough the wall" - Sadhguru

scott2000

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2021, 05:00:56 PM »


So not hobbyist territory I guess  :-X

So audiophiles are professionals? ;D


PermO

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2021, 05:11:20 PM »
 ;D

Indeed, there are more brands selling caps at these prices, Mundorf comes to mind.

In that case, I would defenitly trow my money at the high end industrial polycarbonate caps.
I would still like to get my hands on a pair of these, no free samples ?  :'(
"It's very important that you run trough the door, not trough the wall" - Sadhguru

rackmonkey

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2021, 07:19:08 PM »
I bought some off eBay late last year. They were cheap. I guess good deals are still out there. Honestly I thought they were NOS at the time.
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2021, 09:44:23 PM »

These are high end industrial caps and cost about $ 100,- each... and up.
(0.1uF / 1uF / 0.47uF 400V rated)

We should organise a groupbuy to get one lol

PermO

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2021, 05:56:26 AM »
lol  ;D
"It's very important that you run trough the door, not trough the wall" - Sadhguru

Matt Nolan

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2021, 07:24:58 AM »

PermO

Re: Polycarbonate Film Caps
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2021, 08:04:51 AM »
Nice one !

"It's very important that you run trough the door, not trough the wall" - Sadhguru


 

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