12afael

Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« on: March 25, 2021, 02:52:01 PM »
Hello, I have 2 M160 and one M260 that need new ribbons and I will try to repair them this weekend. I have done ribbons with normal corrugation for several mics but at this point I want to try the original piston ribbon used on those beyer mics.

I have a small rig that I intend to use to corrugate the ribbon. The original ribbon is stiffer than the 1.8u I have used on other ribbons I suspect it is 2.5u or thicker. Information about it is not clear.

I don´t know if the same principles apply for tuning piston ribbons. Someone have any idea of the frequency that those are tuned or the thickness? I have the impression that due to the minimal corrugation the frequency can´t be low as normal Full corrugated ribbons.

best regards
Rafael
heavy metal is the law!!!


shabtek

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2021, 03:46:33 PM »
I have reribboned a beyer with zigzag corrugations and it 'worked' --I am not sure how differently from the original but it passed voice signal cleanly.

I believe Marik posted lots of info about beyer many years ago--he may even reribbon them--iirc he had pics and info on his site at one time.

I think the proper ribbon is formed by pressing in a suitable 2-part die;

there are longitudinal corrugations to give it rigidity and a few zigzag/perpendicular to length of ribbon on each end near the clamps
"really fine players do not use stomp boxes or master volume, they match the amp to the room and turn it up to 11.  Stevie Ray, BB King, Albert King, Duane Allman, Dicky Betts, Louis Armstrong"
   -CJ

12afael

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2021, 02:06:42 AM »
I re ribboned a M500 with normal zigzag and to me it sound fantastic but I have no point of comparison. I used 1.2u on that one.

I have read a lot of post here and some very usefuls from Marik and others. I took some ideas from his post to make a ribbon cutting tool with some precision I will post some pictures soon.

I designed and 3d printed a two part jig to produce the corrugation at the end of the ribbon. I tested it and seem to work fine. My current idea is to corrugate it in two steps. End corrugation first and longitudinal corrugations in a second step.

At the moment I have to come up with some idea for the longitudinal corrugation jig. I glued together 3 pieces of blades from a hobby knife of the correct lenght (14mm) that should give me the 3 longitudinal corrugations. It have to be done against something soft. I have some ideas but I have not tried yet with the "expensive" correct material. Ideally it should be a jig where I can control the depth of the corrugation but I think I will try free hand first. I have very good control of my hands so I hope I can do it if I use 2.5u.

It might be that those longitudinal corrugations needs to be applied one by one.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 03:08:41 AM by 12afael »
heavy metal is the law!!!

12afael

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2021, 03:20:41 AM »
and here is the cutting tool. I need to add some springs for anti backlash but it work well. I did not design it for an specific precision but the long moving part should reduce the error. it have vernier on both sides and it use an M6 screw with .1mm pitch. with the graduated wheel every mark is .1mm. I think it can be improved a lot using different materials and machined instead of printed but I just do my own ribbons so I think it is good enough for the hobby.
heavy metal is the law!!!

shabtek

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2021, 07:27:21 AM »

respect
"really fine players do not use stomp boxes or master volume, they match the amp to the room and turn it up to 11.  Stevie Ray, BB King, Albert King, Duane Allman, Dicky Betts, Louis Armstrong"
   -CJ

Marik

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2021, 08:30:06 PM »
Hello, I have 2 M160 and one M260 that need new ribbons and I will try to repair them this weekend. I have done ribbons with normal corrugation for several mics but at this point I want to try the original piston ribbon used on those beyer mics.

I have a small rig that I intend to use to corrugate the ribbon. The original ribbon is stiffer than the 1.8u I have used on other ribbons I suspect it is 2.5u or thicker. Information about it is not clear.

I don´t know if the same principles apply for tuning piston ribbons. Someone have any idea of the frequency that those are tuned or the thickness? I have the impression that due to the minimal corrugation the frequency can´t be low as normal Full corrugated ribbons.

best regards
Rafael

Rafael,

You don’t need to tune the piston (one of the beauties of this corrugation)—just lay it down, center in the gap and clamp down. Cool idea with the nails. You probably might need two pleats per side to make it more compliant. If you hear lack of low end—that will be an indication.

Best, M
Samar Audio & Microphone Design

www.samaraudiodesign.com

The Art of Ribbon Microphones

12afael

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2021, 08:23:02 AM »
thanks Marik! The Ribbons I have seems to have 1 pleat but it is hard to see and they were not in good shape

Well I failed in my first try and several others. The device I designed to cut the ribbon work BUT! it is really hard to hold the papers below and the papers (aluminum sandwiched in paper) needs to be pin down to the table or the drag of the blade will tear it. so even if I was able to do the corrugation the cuts were not consistent.

One of the things that make it difficult to keep the papers in position is that you have to adjust the tool to make the two cuts.  So I though that would be better to have a tool that already have the two cut adjusted. so you set the dimensions, put the tool over the papers hold it by hand or a toggle clamp and  try in normal papers to verify consistent cuts.

I´m designing the new tool. I plan to print it in the weekend. the main idea is that the rulers touch the paper all the time so just puting some hand pressure on them the cut can be made. It use M6 screws so the wheels are graduated in .1mm and it have holes for inserting a screwdriver or something if more precision is required. It use springs as anti backlash mechanism.
heavy metal is the law!!!

shabtek

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2021, 09:09:12 AM »
 drops of 90% alcohol can create temporary adhesion
"really fine players do not use stomp boxes or master volume, they match the amp to the room and turn it up to 11.  Stevie Ray, BB King, Albert King, Duane Allman, Dicky Betts, Louis Armstrong"
   -CJ

12afael

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2021, 09:37:08 AM »
you mean between the ribbon and the motor? probably something like 99.9% is better for noise.
heavy metal is the law!!!

shabtek

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2021, 05:38:08 PM »
you mean between the ribbon and the motor? probably something like 99.9% is better for noise.
not only-- when handling, cutting, corrugating etc
https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=46378.0
"really fine players do not use stomp boxes or master volume, they match the amp to the room and turn it up to 11.  Stevie Ray, BB King, Albert King, Duane Allman, Dicky Betts, Louis Armstrong"
   -CJ


Matt Nolan

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2021, 06:29:42 PM »
or the drag of the blade will tear it
Perhaps a rotary blade like this would work better?

shabtek

Re: Piston Ribbon Tuning (Beyer mics)
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2021, 09:59:20 PM »
is the guiding edge holding the aluminum/paper sandwich down firmly? are

I have always used a small ruler as a cutting guide. it provides surface area that may be an advantage over a thin edge

double edge shaving razors work well with the right angle.

alcohol might be helpful to get foil to stay with the glassine paper and to get material to lay nicely on a sheet of glass
"really fine players do not use stomp boxes or master volume, they match the amp to the room and turn it up to 11.  Stevie Ray, BB King, Albert King, Duane Allman, Dicky Betts, Louis Armstrong"
   -CJ


 

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