Losing to China
« on: March 31, 2021, 05:32:49 PM »
I can't really give my opinion since I am not from the US, but would like to hear what you think OF THIS VIDEO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DH4v6FnbvM
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 01:39:59 AM by Dualflip »


JohnRoberts

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2021, 06:07:28 PM »
I don't need to watch a video to have an opinion about China.

As I have shared before world power politics is a 3 man, "odd man out" contest.

China and Russia both embrace anything that makes the US weaker, because it makes them stronger by comparison (like a zero sum game).

The latest bad behavior by China is buying oil from Iran (and Venezuela), to weaken the economic impact of US sanctions.

This is nothing new and only one example of several.

JR 
Cancel the "cancel culture", do not participate in mob hatred.

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2021, 06:09:39 PM »
Well the video is not much a critique of China, quite the contrary, it is a critique of the US
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 06:14:03 PM by Dualflip »

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2021, 07:14:20 PM »
I didnt watch the video ,
In many ways we 'the west' have seeded our own downfall , rampant consumerism , new lamps for old ,built in obsolesence and the shifting of the dirty side of production to far away places where health and safety of the workers is non existant , these are the small things that add up , we all have a choice on a personal level .
Then of course theres the macro political power plays which go on above all our heads  , both sides are at that , I dont really see it as were right and there wrong , its both sides doing whats in their own best interests at the end of the day . The Chinese have us well and truly by the 'short n curlies' now but western consumerism has been the driver all along .

Just by way of explanation for those not familiar with the terminology ,
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/have+by+the+short+and+curlies
 ;D

Whoops

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2021, 08:24:33 PM »
Well the video is not much a critique of China, quite the contrary, it is a critique of the US

Pretty cool video,
I had a big laugh.

Thanks for sharing

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2021, 09:28:47 PM »
Perhaps I was misinterpreted, I wanted to hear your opinion specifically on the Youtube video which is called "Losing to China" which is a satirical political comedy critique, so if you didn't watch the video, then you basically don't know what you are talking about. I'm not saying that your opinion on China is wrong, but its not in the context of this thread.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 09:51:15 PM by Dualflip »

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2021, 01:01:47 AM »
The latest bad behavior by China is buying oil from Iran (and Venezuela), to weaken the economic impact of US sanctions.
Because you've somehow convinced yourself China is obliged to follow US diktat?

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2021, 01:41:30 AM »
Because you've somehow convinced yourself China is obliged to follow US diktat?

This is unbelievable, can we post something without polarizing everything. No one but Whoops mentioned the vídeo which iswhy I created the thread. I just edited my OP if it makes more sense
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 02:01:04 AM by Dualflip »

abbey road d enfer

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2021, 02:17:58 AM »
I watched the video, did not get everything (some of the acronyms are obscure to me), but I got the gist of it.
What he says is applicable to most of the western world, we've become a population of lazy, prodedural and individualistic people.
Now, what does he propose?
Are we ready to pay the price, accept dictature, deprivation of many liberties, submission to the interest of the greatest number.
I agree we coud start by ceasing such stupidities such as exegesis of popular sci-fi or comedy series.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2021, 02:25:44 AM »
The video is a shallow take because it pretends Americans have a say in how their country is run: infrastructure projects don't get built, healthcare systems aren't fixed, and education systems aren't reformed, because of deep rooted corruption and crony capitalism. Squabbling over PC and whether to rename military bases didn't stop the US from bombing half the planet into oblivion, so how could it have prevented them from building a high speed railway?

The bigger problem lies elsewhere. What the world liked about America was Hollywood, Coca-Cola, Mickey Mouse, Michael Jordan etc. The world's envy and love for American culture is what gave the US unimaginable power. But no-one likes the bible bashing, bomb dropping, mass shooting, child imprisoning sociopath USA.

China won when America forgot who it was.

This isla unbelievable, can we post something without polarizing everything. No once but Whoops mentioned the vídeo which iswhy I created the thread. I just edited my OP
::)

This thread has the same premise as your last one... and no, the US won't challenge China if Americans stop being offended by everything. Countries are perfectly capable of creating more equal societies and building new railways.

What's incompatible is wasting all your wealth on useless wars and promoting policies that only enrich the few.


Re: Losing to China
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2021, 03:58:06 AM »
I watched the video, did not get everything (some of the acronyms are obscure to me), but I got the gist of it.
What he says is applicable to most of the western world, we've become a population of lazy, prodedural and individualistic people.
Now, what does he propose?
Are we ready to pay the price, accept dictature, deprivation of many liberties, submission to the interest of the greatest number.
I agree we coud start by ceasing such stupidities such as exegesis of popular sci-fi or comedy series.

I agree that what he says is applicable to most of the western world, I don't think he is telling people to accept dictature, in fact quite the opposite, he literally says that there must be middle ground between authoritative China and whatever the US goverment is now, he is, IMHO trying to tell the american society to wake up and start doing things that have a real meaning and benefit their society in the social, academic, economic and political areas, Bill Maher is a libertarian and a democrat, perhaps not a left wing one but certainly not a right wing conservative, also please remember, he is a comedian.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 04:14:16 AM by Dualflip »

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2021, 04:00:49 AM »

This thread has the same premise as your last one... and no, the US won't challenge China if Americans stop being offended by everything. Countries are perfectly capable of creating more equal societies and building new railways.

What's incompatible is wasting all your wealth on useless wars and promoting policies that only enrich the few.

What exactly is my premise?  also, I fail to see his video as a critique inciting the US to challenge China, in fact quite the opposite, he is asking for internal revolution, a change in his own country, a way to progress in areas which he considers are deficient compared to China. In no way did I see his video as a cry of war against China or to invade China, in fact, if any, he is making a satire, because that is what it is, a satire of the current state of his country in contrast to China in his own views. If any he is giving compliments to China!

P.S. Don't forget he is a comedian, a political opinionated one that is for sure, but a comedian. Also, let me add that there are A LOT of things I don't agree with him, his religious views, his views on evolution, global warming, and many other things, in fact I disagree more with what he says than the things I agree with him, but I can appreciate and laugh when he speaks. I honestly think he is a great comedian, but truth be told, he also has a great team of writers.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 04:11:02 AM by Dualflip »

abbey road d enfer

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2021, 05:10:56 AM »
I agree that what he says is applicable to most of the western world, I don't think he is telling people to accept dictature, in fact quite the opposite, he literally says that there must be middle ground between authoritative China and whatever the US goverment is now, he is, IMHO trying to tell the american society to wake up and start doing things that have a real meaning and benefit their society in the social, academic, economic and political areas, Bill Maher is a libertarian and a democrat, perhaps not a left wing one but certainly not a right wing conservative, also please remember, he is a comedian.
I understand all that, and I certainly don't consider he's suggesting we have to accept dictature, but I think that, in order to be motivating, satire should offer a glimpse of a way out. Here it's too depressing IMO.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

Matt Nolan

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2021, 06:08:21 AM »
I think Mr Maher is right to suggest that the solution lies somewhere in the middle ground. The US has fallen into a hole (and has been doing so, gradually, for a very long time) and much of the rest of the "western" world is following.

We (the west) have let the worst sides of capitalism run wild, and rampant consumerism has become the opiate of the masses - it keeps us dumb and distracted. Politically, there is too much division, too much polarisation, too much us versus them, not enough consideration of the opposite point of view, too much - dare I say it - fundamentalism. I have spent some time in the US. Even the news reporting promotes division. Here in the UK, I remember a time when the news presented the facts after they happened. These days we a presented opinions about what is about to happen. It's not great.

The sh1t show that is Brexit seems to me partly about going in the direction of China. Certainly the Dominic Cummings influence was/is like this. Removal of regulation, removal of oversight, removal of due process to just get things done, and quickly, unilaterally. Too far in that direction and you are right into survival of the fittest at the expense of the weak territory. Not to mention that cronyism is almost unavoidable with a system like that.

The biggest thing that struck me in the video was that China has massively grown its middle class. Wealth is being distributed to more people, many people have moved up. In the west, by contrast, wealth is being distributed to fewer people, the poor classes are growing while a very small number of people are getting pointlessly wealthy. Living standards, on average, are going down in many places.

This is a difficult nut to crack though. Totalitarianism isn't much fun and, as we know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. At the opposite end of things, extreme proportional representation democracy leads to stagnation. Trying to please everybody pleases nobody. Even outside of politics, design by committee never produces great art. I don't think we've found that middle ground which really works yet, where you can be fair, make good progress, have good living conditions and self-fulfillment for all, minimise corruption, etc. And anyhow, utopia is boring, right?

Suggestions for the way forward are welcome.

living sounds

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2021, 08:15:41 AM »
This is unbelievable, can we post something without polarizing everything. No one but Whoops mentioned the vídeo which iswhy I created the thread. I just edited my OP if it makes more sense

Remember how you derailed my recent thread with your OT comments?   ;D

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 04:27:07 PM »
I understand all that, and I certainly don't consider he's suggesting we have to accept dictature, but I think that, in order to be motivating, satire should offer a glimpse of a way out. Here it's too depressing IMO.

He has always been like that, he uses dark humour, many times his audience gets outraged or at times they even boo at him, its just the way he is.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 05:33:23 PM by Dualflip »

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2021, 04:28:24 PM »
Remember how you derailed my recent thread with your OT comments?   ;D

I wasn't out of topic when I mentioned climate change which is mentioned in your article, and I don't think I was out of topic for mentioning that the Our biggest challenge is not making the earth greener.

Also, I did read your article, some people here never watched the video.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 05:33:30 PM by Dualflip »

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2021, 05:19:57 PM »
I think Mr Maher is right to suggest that the solution lies somewhere in the middle ground. The US has fallen into a hole (and has been doing so, gradually, for a very long time) and much of the rest of the "western" world is following.

We (the west) have let the worst sides of capitalism run wild, and rampant consumerism has become the opiate of the masses - it keeps us dumb and distracted. Politically, there is too much division, too much polarisation, too much us versus them, not enough consideration of the opposite point of view, too much - dare I say it - fundamentalism. I have spent some time in the US. Even the news reporting promotes division. Here in the UK, I remember a time when the news presented the facts after they happened. These days we a presented opinions about what is about to happen. It's not great.

The sh1t show that is Brexit seems to me partly about going in the direction of China. Certainly the Dominic Cummings influence was/is like this. Removal of regulation, removal of oversight, removal of due process to just get things done, and quickly, unilaterally. Too far in that direction and you are right into survival of the fittest at the expense of the weak territory. Not to mention that cronyism is almost unavoidable with a system like that.

The biggest thing that struck me in the video was that China has massively grown its middle class. Wealth is being distributed to more people, many people have moved up. In the west, by contrast, wealth is being distributed to fewer people, the poor classes are growing while a very small number of people are getting pointlessly wealthy. Living standards, on average, are going down in many places.

This is a difficult nut to crack though. Totalitarianism isn't much fun and, as we know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. At the opposite end of things, extreme proportional representation democracy leads to stagnation. Trying to please everybody pleases nobody. Even outside of politics, design by committee never produces great art. I don't think we've found that middle ground which really works yet, where you can be fair, make good progress, have good living conditions and self-fulfillment for all, minimise corruption, etc. And anyhow, utopia is boring, right?

Suggestions for the way forward are welcome.

Absolutely agree with you, he did not in fact proporse anything per se, but rather point out what is wrong and imply what can be done by matter of analogy.

Script

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2021, 08:31:27 PM »
Thanks for posting. I didn't know him. Always on the lookout for good comedy/satire. Had some very good laughs. Am definitely watching more.

Whoops

Re: Losing to China
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2021, 10:28:54 PM »
Because you've somehow convinced yourself China is obliged to follow US diktat?

Right!

 :D :D :D :D

Like if the US were the Saints and the righteous in the world.
A country that starts wars to increase their oil quota and try to subdue others to increase their market reach, but I could say even much more


 

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