Capacitors... (again I know .. but please bare with me)

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I have done mucho thread searching and to help other newbies like me who are just begining are parts stockpiles can I just run some things by y'all...
I know there is a web site out there with graphs showing responses - but to be quite honest I don't know what I am looking at...

Talking about normal non polarised capacitors...

Reading the threads - Polypropelene comes up time and time again as the choice for audio applications.
However PRR gave a word of caution about using Metalised Polypropelene in audio applications.
So in my simplistic terms I will be try and buy Film/Foil Polypros as you first choice.
Now onto Polycarbonates - if I have a stock of these what can I use them in..
Anybody care to explain in plain English what I should be looking for and the best applications for them all.. e.g. cermaic, silver mica etc..
 
From the

META - Useful Information for Newbie DIYers (and others!)

http://www.capacitors.com/picking_capacitors/pickcap.htm


"Picking Capacitors Fantastic article from Walter G. Jung and Richard Marsh"


Jakob E.
 
hmm there used to be a graph floating around showing various aspects of capacitors but I can't seem to find a link to it. It showed how and why certain types of caps to be superior to each other. the underlying tone was this:

In order from best to worst

1. teflon
2. polystyrene
3. polycarb(if you can find them..)
4. polypro
5. polyester
6. ceramic

i don't think Mica was included though..
 
oh - I see - i though that polypro was better than most things - best go and by some more polycarbonates then
 
There are a lot of places where caps get used in a circuit. You should divide these applications into groups before you try to find a "one type fits all" cap:

1) pwr supply filter caps
2) rectifier by-pass caps
3) transistor coupling caps
4) op amp coupling caps
5) op amp feedback caps
6) tube coupling caps
7) tube screen by-pass caps
8) tube cathode by-pass caps
9) tube output stage caps
10) tube feedback caps

Polycarbonate's are great for low drift with tempeture, but I have never heard of them being the first choice in the audiophool circles. They do cost a lot, if that makes you feel cool.
Just wear a long overcoat so you can get that warm feeling when you piss your pants over the price.
Don't let the lilly guide your design parametrs.
 
I've used a lot of Wima & Evox polycarbs & polyprops in my ccts, & my general feeling is that the carbs are slightly darker than the props. They do both sound very nice, just slight tonal diffs.

Only used paper in oil once before but they were better than the poly's in a Mullard 5-10(?) homebuild.

Peter
 
I'm new here but have about 25 years experience experimenting with
capacitor types in all different types of gear. Whether polypro or oil caps are better really will depend on the circuit and where they are used in the circuit. Oil caps can sound very good in circuits that are running open loop, especially if the preamp/amp in question is part of a system where there may be strident sounding components like some horn speakers.
Or if you want a mic preamp with a very vintage, smooth tonality.Oil caps also work great in power supplies for vacuum tube equipment. But in a lot of gear, using them as coupling caps will blunt the sound unacceptably.

The red WIMA metallized polypro's seem to work well about anywhere and I have yet to have a reliability issue with any of them. Lots of hi end recording and stereo gear use these. Other metallized polypro's I'm not so sure about (although again I have put many Solen's into gear and not ever had an issue, and they sound pretty good in a lot of instances).

The Sprague orange drop polypro film and foil in my experience work very well. Nice, clear, not too strident. Some people will quibble with this but I think they are good caps. And they are inexpensive. Do not get these mixed up with the Orange drop polyester or metallized polypro!

If you really want to up the ante some of the audiophile caps like Hovland and Auricap, MIT etc. can be great but are very expensive and in many places may not make that much of a difference. I really like the Hovlands but it may depend on your circuit and implementation (and subjective taste). These are all polypro by the way.

Replacing picofard valure caps-if you need to use ceramics COG's have types have the best DA charactersitics. Using better caps where these are used may not seem like it would make a big difference but I have had instances where replacing all ceramic caps with COG's (especially op amp stuff) has made a big difference on the top end smoothness. Better yet,
use good quality polystyrenes if you can find them.

Teflon is great but if you can afford to build anything with these you can afford to buy whatever gear you want!

I could go into electrolytics but I gotta get back to work.

Greg
 
[quote author="GregL"]

I could go into electrolytics but I gotta get back to work.

Greg[/quote]


Thanks for the informative post, please do go right into electro when you get time to post again! :grin: :thumb:
 
Hey Guys,

I just plunged for aload of MKT68 Dipped Metalized Polyester types which I was aiming to use for me EQ project...these coo?

Cheers!
 
a recap on recapping for this newguy?

1 No set rules to recapping a unit ?

2 uf and volts can be 25% or so up from original ( 35v for 25v ect ) ?

3. must experiment because all electrolytics sound different ?
.20 $ nichion or 1.40 sprauge
 
a recap on recapping for this newguy?

1 No set rules to recapping a unit ?

2 uf and volts can be 25% or so up from original ( 35v for 25v ect ) ?

3. must experiment because all electrolytics sound different ?
.20 $ nichion or 1.40 sprauge
 
[quote author="GregL"]I'm new here but have about 25 years experience experimenting with
capacitor types in all different types of gear. Whether polypro or oil caps are better really will depend on the circuit and where they are used in the circuit. Oil caps can sound very good in circuits that are running open loop, especially if the preamp/amp in question is part of a system where there may be strident sounding components like some horn speakers.
Or if you want a mic preamp with a very vintage, smooth tonality.Oil caps also work great in power supplies for vacuum tube equipment. But in a lot of gear, using them as coupling caps will blunt the sound unacceptably.

The red WIMA metallized polypro's seem to work well about anywhere and I have yet to have a reliability issue with any of them. Lots of hi end recording and stereo gear use these. Other metallized polypro's I'm not so sure about (although again I have put many Solen's into gear and not ever had an issue, and they sound pretty good in a lot of instances).

The Sprague orange drop polypro film and foil in my experience work very well. Nice, clear, not too strident. Some people will quibble with this but I think they are good caps. And they are inexpensive. Do not get these mixed up with the Orange drop polyester or metallized polypro!

If you really want to up the ante some of the audiophile caps like Hovland and Auricap, MIT etc. can be great but are very expensive and in many places may not make that much of a difference. I really like the Hovlands but it may depend on your circuit and implementation (and subjective taste). These are all polypro by the way.

Replacing picofard valure caps-if you need to use ceramics COG's have types have the best DA charactersitics. Using better caps where these are used may not seem like it would make a big difference but I have had instances where replacing all ceramic caps with COG's (especially op amp stuff) has made a big difference on the top end smoothness. Better yet,
use good quality polystyrenes if you can find them.

Teflon is great but if you can afford to build anything with these you can afford to buy whatever gear you want!

I could go into electrolytics but I gotta get back to work.

Greg[/quote]

Welcome as well Greg.

I agree about the C0G parts---Jung and Marsh oddly seem to lump all ceramics together and the NP0/C0G's are very decent low-loss parts. They are just bulky for anything very large, although if you pay enough they can get up to 100nF with reasonable size. AVX made a power supply cap of 100's of microfarads with C0G material, for the International Space Station, but it probably cost the gov't $100k or more.

The paper/oil caps are exceptionally low in microphonics/piezoelectric effects. Supposedly that's why Peter Qvortrup likes them (Audio Note). They are not low dielectric absorption or even very low d.c. leakage. When I did a high-end piece for a friend, who insisted on using them as output coupling caps, I quipped that they were the first non-electrolytic caps that required a d.c. servo.

Lately I've had to do a lot of design with SMD and the capacitors are usually ceramic X7R and are terrible. It amazes me that the stuff doesn't sound worse.
 
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