Tape Machine Thread

There hasn't been much talk in "The Lab" about tape machines. This is an area I'm very interested in. I currently have a Tascam 85-16 (with issues I'll add) and my Tascam ATR60-16 should be here any day now. I'm sure some people here are extremely experienced with tape machines so I want you guys to know I plan to pick your brains thoroughly.

My first group of questions are about tape machine maintenace. What do you guys use for head cleaning - 99% anhydrous isoproponal? What do you clean the guides with? capstan? pinch roller? Please offer tips and as much knowledge as you'd like to on the subject.

All I know about tape machine is what I've read or figured out myself... meaning that no one in particular me how to align a tape machine (electronically or mechanically). I'm very familiar with much of the electrical aligning process, but I'm no expert. As far as the mechanical aligning, I know some but not that much.

I'll post back with more questions after I get my ATR60-16 so I can make sure I have it running to its maximum potential. FYI - I bought the machien from John at Millenia, and he said he put minimal hours on the machine (ie 500 max). He mentioned a problem with track 9 record, so I might be posting regarding that. And the manual has a detailed aligning procedure, so as I do it I'm sure I'll ask questions to make sure I'm on the right track.

Anyway, just that this would be a nice topic to discuss.

Greg, hi! Well, the first thing I would do, is make sure you have the maintenence manuals for those decks. Tascam's pretty good about outlining their procedures. They should tell you everything you need to do the job.

Nice pun - (the thread title).

Oh to be able to find a half inch kit for my Studer A80 1/4 inch machine...
Sigh...Dream on...

[quote author="The Kid"]Greg, hi! Well, the first thing I would do, is make sure you have the maintenence manuals for those decks. Tascam's pretty good about outlining their procedures. They should tell you everything you need to do the job.[/quote]

I do have both of the manuals. The manual for the ATR60 goes into far more detail than the one for the 85-16. I did get my ATR60 yesterday and will be connecting the I/O today, then onto mech and elec calibration. I'll post back if I come across any problems.

What do you guys clean the pinch roller with?

Unfortunately, my recently aquired MRL tape has fallen trap to becoming a sticky mess. So that means I'm looking for an MRL alignment tape... 30ips, AES, 250nW/m. Used is fine, as long as it works. Multifrequency preferred, but 3 or 4 frequency might be ok.

Or if anyone can point me in a better direction.

I went thru my Tascam 1/2 inch 8 track.
Most of the cost and labor was in the transport path.
Of course the reel holders are a weak point.
I recapped the pwr supply which made the machine run coller.

I,asked about upgrading the amp cards but Kev got me off of that by saying something like "the recorder was never going to be what I had hoped for" or something to that effect.
And he is right.
There is only so much you can do to get those things to sound as good as todays digital crap.
This was proven when I noticed I got better sound out of my VCR when recording stereo.

But, they are fun, they are analog, tape is not cheap, but what is the alternative? Pro Tools? Not my cup o tea.
Studer? Now your talking, but money and maintanence.

Alignment? If its close I wouldn't mess with that aspect, no mater what the manual says.

I think mine has 5532 and 5534 opamps, which would be hard to improve on.

Tascam sells chemicals for the rubber and steel parts.

cj

Hi Greg,
I have a Revox Studer C274 four track. I bought it faulty and it's now fixed (with the aid of a very hard to get manual).
As for info , I would check evilbay for books. There were ,in their day, any number of "how to... and get the best out of....type books on studio maintainence. As for cleaning just be VERY carefull with cleaning the pinch roller, cetain agents will turn them into a goooey mess!
I am a tape freak of forty years standing (Ampex 351 onwards) and I just love the whole concept but as CJ says dont look to beat digital on performance, that sterile crap has no noise, no distortion, no W&F and I use it to master but it aint the same.
Steve

[quote author="Greg"]Unfortunately, my recently aquired MRL tape has fallen trap to becoming a sticky mess.[/quote]
I think I read somewhere that that's covered by their warranty. At least you should be able to get a discount on a replacement tape from MRL...

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen

[quote author="mcs"]I think I read somewhere that that's covered by their warranty. At least you should be able to get a discount on a replacement tape from MRL...
Mikkel C. Simonsen[/quote]

Yea, if I send it back they will discount a replacement by 30%.

I have a simple question, and I just want to be sure... when the manual says to put in a 1.23V signal, do they mean RMS or peak-to-peak. RMS right?

Tascam 85-16... shudder!!!

I used to look after one o'dems... the later 85-16B had much better noise reduction cards, with soft switching in place of the OMRON 4-pole relays that "clacked" loudly when you switched from playback to record, or bypass...

Most of the problems with that machine were tape path and NR card related. I also had an 85-16B to look at that permanently ran ever-so-slightly slow and didn't try to correct itself... wierd... -never quite got to the bottom of that one!

The earlier dark greeny-coloured 85-16 used to give me dbx NR relay nightmares!!!

Keith

I have the original 85-16, but I haven't had any issues with the relays, but they do make that clank you mentioned... it was my first machine that I bought when I was 19. I just turned 24. It was a good machine to learn alot of the basics, and I learned alot about tape machines b/c I was always having to fix the darn thing. btw - I came across a spare DBX unit a couple years ago, so I have 16 spare DBX cards, and even 4 spare DBX cards for the 85-16B (long story don't ask how I got them).

I guess I'll just keep piling up the questions.... should I record at +3dB or +6dB? This is for my ATR60 at 30ips, not my 85-16 at 15ips.

tape cal is pretty much I like chocolate/I like vanilla stuff.

Do you know how to cal the deck with confidence? If so, here's my advice:

Record what you normally record while playing around with the hi/lo eq and the bias. When you find the sound that you like, go and cal the machine to spec and make a note of how far off you were... The most righteous kick drum sounds come from a track biased in a way that would make your vocals sound like garbage... You can get very creative with your calibration and if you are doing everything in house it totally doesnt matter at all. If you are going 9dB over bias, that could be some trouble for the machine down the line, but if you know what you are doing, cal'ing the deck so that not every track is totally flat can be used to your advantage. Low freq head bump is your friend, figure out how to use it.

If you dont know how to cal the deck, forget EVERYTHING I just said, you want to just get everything to spec and even and have a party without making a total mess...

All that said, you'll find a level that works for you, depending on what you record. Ive told people in the past online who have asked about what level to cal their deck to and suggested that they just listen and people have had fucking caniptions over that advice, but it really is the best advice. I recorded on a standard cal for years before I came to the conclusion that I didnt like it as I never LISTENED to what it actually did to the tape, I just figured you had to do it that way or Lanoz the god of sound would materialize on earth and shoot lightning bolts out of your erase head at you...

If you dont know where to start, Q456 @ +6/185 nW/m is a sound that is pretty standard all over the world. Depending on the integrity of the electronics of your deck you could try it at +9 if you have the bias to get up that high. The tascam probably wont, I had an MSR-16 and +6 was all it had in it on a good day... Check out GP9 @ +6/185. Its a +9 stock but I dont like it at +9 at all. You might love it... It's totally chocolate vanilla kind of stuff. Forget what the tape wants (manufacturer spec and all that) and focus on what your specific machine can deliver for you with that tape. Sort of like a porcshe with a professional driver vs. porsche with me driving... Same car, same factory spec, totally different performance...

When it comes to the level you are gonna be working at, its really specific to the electronics in your specific deck, I dont care what anyone says about that, and believe me, Ive caught hell for suggesting such a blasphemous idea that +6 on my shitty antique deck with rotting electronics sounds different than +6 on a different deck, etc... Listen to what your machine wants to do, there's probably a window where you'll find what sounds REALLY good to you. I have a new tape machine and spent three 12 hour days calibrating it this week. Thats a really long time to sit on the floor turning tiny screws... If you put the time in, you can solve a lot of problems if you custom tailor your calibration, but maybe thats a bit beyond what you are asking, I dont know. The most important thing is to listen to what the deck is doing, just because some cal is cool on this machine dont mean its cool on another.

My favorite story is the day I believed the hype about +9 for rock (for classical, sure) and brought an MM1100 up to +9, recorded kick and snare in my usual fashion and then proceeded to replace a handful of diodes on the record and playback cards that the drum tracks were recorded on. This was around the time whe GP9 first came out and everyone was wearing those quantegy shirts with the needle bending on the VU and some slogan like "push it to the pins" or something like that, cant remember exactly.

too much info maybe...

Just remember, for everyone telling you how end all be all a certain level is, the first handful of Led Zeppelin records were recorded at 185. Thats ZERO. If you can put balls like that on a tape at plus zero nW/m, that whole debate about level can more or less kiss my ass...

dave

Hi Guys,

I posted this on another thread, but anyway.

Anyone heard of a tascam 42B? Got a chance to pick one up for $60 that was bought at auction. I dont know the condition of the thing, butfor that money I figure what the hell. I cant seem to find much info about it, like what speeds it will do. Is it a worthy machine? I am thinking of experimenting with dumping drums onto it and that sort of thing. thanx.

Yeah it ought to be a good machine. I think it's Tascam's "professional" version of the 32, and possibly the precursor to the ATR16-8. should be balanced I/O, heavier duty transport than a 32 iirc.

For $60 it's definitely worth it. There's one for sale at superdigital.com for $499...

Anyone know much about degaussing here, I've not ever seen any posts about it over the years.
My 2" machine is pretty low-use so I haven't done it as much as the manual says I should, generally just before sticking the alignment tape on.

Has anyone had improved results from doing it a lot, or disasters from never doing it, it has always seemed like voodoo, but I daren't not do it!

[quote author="Nat"]Yeah it ought to be a good machine. I think it's Tascam's "professional" version of the 32, and possibly the precursor to the ATR16-8. should be balanced I/O, heavier duty transport than a 32 iirc.

For $60 it's definitely worth it. There's one for sale at superdigital.com for $499...[/quote]

Well it certainly weighs a tonne and a half!! I cant find a damn manual for it anywhere on line...still looking.

I inadvertemtly sat the machine right next to my Marshall 4 x 12 cab, i HOPE this didnt have any effect on the head??! Could this have cause damage guys?

due to the massive magnetic pull of these cabs, is what I mean....if you have ever rolled one past a TV you will know what I mean....worried...

You degauss to remove magnetic "build up" on the heads. It's no more voodoo than wiping a strip of tape covered in iron oxide past a lump of metal with electromagnets in it and finding it's got music recorded on it!

As far as I know, you'll get progressively worsening HF response, and you'll also find that HF already on the tape gets erased the more times you play it. Don't take my word for this, because I've never gone too long without degaussing, and I'm sure others will be able to tell you tons more about it than me 'cuz that's about all I know!

Well there wa no tape on the machine at the time luckily. I know bugger all about these things so far, so I wasnt sure if the cab could damage the heads in anyway....so I can just leave it there...the cab has nowhere else to go in here :0)

How are you guys finding tape these days? Pretty difficult to purchase now in Australia, I wonder how long it will be easily available, and when it will just become uneconomic to manufacture.

I can just picture a DIY tape manufacturing site in the future, yikes!