electronaut
Well-known member
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4637203.stm
Plug in your Drums
- Thread starter electronaut
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Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
clintrubber
Well-known member
And connectors on the wall to DI the roomsound as well I presume ? :roll:
jensenmann
Well-known member
I always knew: Neumann mikes on welltuned drums SUCK :twisted:
:guinness: :guinness: :guinness:
Jens
:guinness: :guinness: :guinness:
Jens
babyhead
Well-known member
I'll pass...
Who here has found a piezio that actually sounds good for acoustic guitar?
Who wants it to sound like their head is in the drum?
I don't even like Mays...
Who here has found a piezio that actually sounds good for acoustic guitar?
Who wants it to sound like their head is in the drum?
I don't even like Mays...
I used a amp sample of kynar for a guitar pickup years ago. Kynar film has been around for some time. IIRC the sensor in kids led light up sneakers might be made from Kynar.
Some links for your learning fun.
http://www.media.mit.edu/resenv/classes/MAS836/Readings/MSI-techman.pdf
http://www.sensorsmag.com/articles/0399/lb0399/main.shtml
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/hack63.pdf
www.msiusa.com/download/pdf/english/piezo/RB_EG_02.pdf
http://www.msiusa.com/default/index.asp
http://www.msiusa.com/piezo/products.asp
Some links for your learning fun.
http://www.media.mit.edu/resenv/classes/MAS836/Readings/MSI-techman.pdf
http://www.sensorsmag.com/articles/0399/lb0399/main.shtml
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/hack63.pdf
www.msiusa.com/download/pdf/english/piezo/RB_EG_02.pdf
http://www.msiusa.com/default/index.asp
http://www.msiusa.com/piezo/products.asp
asm
Well-known member
i like this part...
"Miking up a drum kit is complicated and time consuming"
AWWWWWWWWWWWW its difficult! :sad: :sad: :sad:
"Miking up a drum kit is complicated and time consuming"
AWWWWWWWWWWWW its difficult! :sad: :sad: :sad:
electronaut
Well-known member
The problem with these things is that they are marketed as solutions to "problems", as if conventional techniques were hopelessly flawed or overly complicated. That marketing rhetoric always ruffles the feathers of anyone experienced enough to know better. Unfortunately, it's such a turn off that it breeds a sort of elitism and close-mindedness towards innovation.
Imagine if one of us lab-members discovered this effect, and offered up his/her observations to the people here. What a thread it would be! There would be a group-buy for the ingredients to make the material, and probably numerous externally-linked web pages of "how-to" information. Many of us would be experimenting with the stuff, discovering potential uses, exchanging experiences, etc.
I bet the stuff sounds kinda weird. But I'm sure it has a sound of it's own, which may or may not be interesting. Either way, it appears to be a new thing, which can't be all that bad. I say, ignore the marketing! and think about the possibilities.
Personally, I can't imagine that sampling a vibration without having the interaction with air would yield a very realistic sound, but then again, electric guitars sure as hell don't sound "realistic", and we'd probably hate them if they did! Who knows, maybe these things will distort in insane ways which will inspire some new kind of drumming! Seriously, what would Jimi Hendrix have sounded like if he only had access to a strictly realistic amplifier???
Maybe I'm hopelessly optimistic.
-E.
Imagine if one of us lab-members discovered this effect, and offered up his/her observations to the people here. What a thread it would be! There would be a group-buy for the ingredients to make the material, and probably numerous externally-linked web pages of "how-to" information. Many of us would be experimenting with the stuff, discovering potential uses, exchanging experiences, etc.
I bet the stuff sounds kinda weird. But I'm sure it has a sound of it's own, which may or may not be interesting. Either way, it appears to be a new thing, which can't be all that bad. I say, ignore the marketing! and think about the possibilities.
Personally, I can't imagine that sampling a vibration without having the interaction with air would yield a very realistic sound, but then again, electric guitars sure as hell don't sound "realistic", and we'd probably hate them if they did! Who knows, maybe these things will distort in insane ways which will inspire some new kind of drumming! Seriously, what would Jimi Hendrix have sounded like if he only had access to a strictly realistic amplifier???
Maybe I'm hopelessly optimistic.
-E.
E
I posted some good links on plastic piezo stuff. New sounds can be cool or suck.
I also think the marketing of solid state modeling amps is kind of funny. I think the modeling amps have there own sound that is waiting for someone(s) to find a use for it.
I posted some good links on plastic piezo stuff. New sounds can be cool or suck.
I also think the marketing of solid state modeling amps is kind of funny. I think the modeling amps have there own sound that is waiting for someone(s) to find a use for it.
electronaut
Well-known member
Wo.
In a completely random and bizarre twist of fate, I have somehow just acquired two of these little transducer things. I forwarded the BBC article to my neighbor/pal, and a half hour later he knocked on my door and handed me these:
He tried them out for an art project, but ended up using piezos. His comments were,
"They do benefit I think from having a much less pronounced resonant frequency which makes them a passable contact mike. Pretty cool actually as they're just this little stupid piece of plastic. You want some sweet balanced inputs to keep them quiet ... with a shielded cable if you can. Mouser #LDT0-028K/L"
I think I'll mess around with these little things. Maybe I'll even glue one into the inside of a drum or something.
-E.
Thanks Gus, for the links!
In a completely random and bizarre twist of fate, I have somehow just acquired two of these little transducer things. I forwarded the BBC article to my neighbor/pal, and a half hour later he knocked on my door and handed me these:
He tried them out for an art project, but ended up using piezos. His comments were,
"They do benefit I think from having a much less pronounced resonant frequency which makes them a passable contact mike. Pretty cool actually as they're just this little stupid piece of plastic. You want some sweet balanced inputs to keep them quiet ... with a shielded cable if you can. Mouser #LDT0-028K/L"
I think I'll mess around with these little things. Maybe I'll even glue one into the inside of a drum or something.
-E.
Thanks Gus, for the links!
Emperor-TK
Well-known member
The operational mechanism of these seems to be more akin to a condenser mic than a piezo. Polyproplyene has a much smaller dipole moment compared to PVDF (flourochemistry is some wicked cool stuff). Depending on how compressible the film is (from the entrained bubbles), it might be able to pick up some sound waves from the head itself and not just the shell. Maybe it will sound somewhere between a May mic and a transducer.
http://www.randallmay.com/mike3.htm
Gus, great piezo links BTW.
-Chris
Edit: I just noticed that they charge the polypropylene prior to electrode deposition. It may be more piezo like than I thought.
http://www.randallmay.com/mike3.htm
Gus, great piezo links BTW.
-Chris
Edit: I just noticed that they charge the polypropylene prior to electrode deposition. It may be more piezo like than I thought.
This is old news, they introduced the stuff years ago I believe. Some local (Finland) magazines tested their guitar products and I remember they said it sounded goood
http://www.b-band.com/index.php
http://www.b-band.com/index.php
electronaut
Well-known member
Well, so far these things are a great improvement for my homemade plate reverb. They sound way better than anything else I've tried! In fact, I gave up a while ago and decided that the reverb would have to be decoration instead of a functional object.
Now I may be changing my mind.
Now I may be changing my mind.
Thats the same style sample I got. I believe the company bought the AMP line of parts or something like that.
If you look you will find the coax piezo stuff that looks a lot like one of the guitar pickup sensors that is on the market.
COOL plate
If you look you will find the coax piezo stuff that looks a lot like one of the guitar pickup sensors that is on the market.
COOL plate
IMHO this section of a famous guitar legend interwiew was interesting, talking generally about difficulties of contact mic systems
(found it here)
http://www.mwe3.com/features/index.htm
"Mine had 11-50?s on while I used on ?Flingel Bunt? and ?Don?t Make My Baby Blue.? And the acoustic guitar I used was a Lakewood with a sound system on the guitar, an amplification system. A B-band system. I was kind of disappointed in the sound on that acoustic guitar when it was recorded, because live it sounded incredibly realistic, everyone was commenting on how good it sounded as if there was a microphone stuck in front of it. Yet for some reason that didn?t translate onto the recording medium and I haven?t got a clue why. It sounded to me very synthetic, which was a bitter disappointment, I must say. But that?s the way it goes...That was disappointing to have what was obviously a very good sound in the venues, and everyone commenting on how natural it sounded, to end up on the recording medium sounding like a very bad piezo pickup. I don?t know what happened. But there you go, that is life Robert. Full of twists and turns."
(found it here)
http://www.mwe3.com/features/index.htm
"Mine had 11-50?s on while I used on ?Flingel Bunt? and ?Don?t Make My Baby Blue.? And the acoustic guitar I used was a Lakewood with a sound system on the guitar, an amplification system. A B-band system. I was kind of disappointed in the sound on that acoustic guitar when it was recorded, because live it sounded incredibly realistic, everyone was commenting on how good it sounded as if there was a microphone stuck in front of it. Yet for some reason that didn?t translate onto the recording medium and I haven?t got a clue why. It sounded to me very synthetic, which was a bitter disappointment, I must say. But that?s the way it goes...That was disappointing to have what was obviously a very good sound in the venues, and everyone commenting on how natural it sounded, to end up on the recording medium sounding like a very bad piezo pickup. I don?t know what happened. But there you go, that is life Robert. Full of twists and turns."
therecordingart
Well-known member
Their marketing gets under my skin with the implication that mic'ing a kit is a royal pain. Yes, getting a solid drum sound is hard with horrible mics, an un-tuned kit, and a crappy room, but I don't think that these pickups will be the magic wand.
I think that these drum pickups will sound like recording in a dead room since they are enclosed in the drums and won't really have any reflections to pick up. That can be both a good and bad thing depending on whether or not you have a great room.
Short reverb times would probably be essential just to create a realistic ambience around the kit.....unless you want it dead.
I'm curious to hear them!
I think that these drum pickups will sound like recording in a dead room since they are enclosed in the drums and won't really have any reflections to pick up. That can be both a good and bad thing depending on whether or not you have a great room.
Short reverb times would probably be essential just to create a realistic ambience around the kit.....unless you want it dead.
I'm curious to hear them!
