Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« on: July 12, 2005, 02:25:04 PM »
I haven't tried it yet.Can't turn down free software. :green:

http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tina-ti.html


PRR

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2005, 05:45:16 PM »
It is probably just Tina with a TI badge.

You can get a free Tina Demo, but you can't Save.

TI does not say anything about not saving. I suspect it does: they WANT you to design stuff using the groovy TI models. Wonder how hard it is to stuff other models in there? Must be some way, because TI keeps inventing groovy new chips they will want you using in Tina-TI.

Rochey

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2005, 06:01:53 PM »
and????  :grin:
Expat Audio Home: http://www.expataudio.com

PRR

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2005, 06:15:53 PM »
It opens, modifies, Save-AS, print, everything you need for small DIY work. Limit on number of nodes, so you can out-grow it.

Ah-ha-ha-ha-ho-ho!

I drew up a one transistor circuit, went to analyze:

"Circuit must contain at least one IC".

Hmmmm. I stuck a 555 timer on the sheet, even gave it power, and am still getting

"Circuit must contain at least one IC".

later... LM318 with all pins connected (to something stupid) passes the IC check.


Also: "This evaluation version, TINA-TI, is not authorized for educational use, and should not be used by educators for the purpose of educating pupils, or by students or others for educational purposes. For educational use special versions of TINA are available developed especially for teachers and students. For more information see www.tina.com under Education."

Laterer.... even if I connect all pins of the 318 to ground (it's dead), the IC check passes and the circuit is analyzed, giving reasonable answers for the transistor.

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2005, 02:45:46 AM »
...

Rossi

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2005, 05:18:41 AM »
On the other hand, the program is neat to try out those fancy TI chips such as INA163 and OPA1632.

One thing that strikes me, though, is that neither this program nor the free SIMetrix Intro (the one I used so far) has a model for the NE5532.
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"

clintrubber

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2005, 06:08:15 AM »
from Rossi:
Quote
One thing that strikes me, though, is that neither this program nor the free SIMetrix Intro (the one I used so far) has a model for the NE5532.

I might understand this incorrectly in that you're looking for that model, which might not be the case.
If you are looking for it (I realize I could use a model of it myself as well), I found this:
http://www.beis.de/Elektronik/Filter/NE553x.lb
(haven't tried it yet)

from:
http://www.beis.de/Elektronik/Filter/Filter.html

Quote
Trying to simulate an NE5532 I had trouble to get a correct Spice model for it. The only model I found was on the TI webpage for an NE5534 and is quite faulty: It has an unlimited bandwidth as the internal compensation capacitor is missing. For an NE5534 (uncompensated single version of NE5532, min. gain = 3) a capacitor of 3.5 pF must be added between nodes 6 and 7, and for an NE5532 (min. gain = 1) it takes 23.5 pF. For an NE5534 a new symbol with additional connections for external compensation must be created, for the NE5532 this is not the case. I prepared both models, you may download them here. Look for help in your simulator how to integrate the models - it takes some steps.


I thought we've seen this page being mentioned before, nice info.

Regards,

  Peter

Rossi

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2005, 11:42:31 AM »
Thanks a lot, Peter! I actually was looking for a 5532 model. I had found the TI NE5534 model but was unable to use it in SIMetrix intro because of the additional compensaton pins. This 5532 model seems to work. :thumb:
I still love the good old NE5532. A real classic.

BTW. Does anybody know a source for models of those Japanese chips, such as NJM4580 or NJM2114?
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"

clintrubber

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2005, 01:40:17 PM »
Right ! I couldn't use it either, but simply threw out the '5534-part of it, so only the '32 section remaining. Still had to 'map' it on an opamp-symbol, but OK, it now works fine. Maybe sometime I'll add a symbol for the the '5534, but for now it's fine.  

Very FWIW, I recently ran into another pair of '5533-samples. As you know these are dual-5534 in a 14p package; in other words a 5532 with compens.possibilities - could in principle be of use for a driver stage because of their larger power handling instead of using a 5532.

W.r.t. two single 5534's I see little advantage. Or use just one section 5533 iso a single 5534. Likely it will all make little difference, just thinking out loud a bit to give these samples an application at a spot where it would make a difference.

Regards,

  Peter

Rossi

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2005, 02:07:59 PM »
Yepp, NE5532 model works fine after assigning it the proper symbol. Do you also use SIMetrix? This Tina program looks nice too, but I haven't yet figured out how to install additional models.

You're a lucky guy; I've never even seen a NE5533. I suppose the two halves of the NE5533 are matched. Would be good for input stages, too.
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"


clintrubber

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2005, 02:16:19 PM »
Quote
Do you also use SIMetrix? This Tina program looks nice too, but I haven't yet figured out how to install additional models.

Yep, SIMetrix here as well. Using it at home & also at work when using some non-integrated circuits; easier to do it like that than to incorporate   discretes etc into the 'company-simulator'.
I've found models for most discretes I'd like to use (JFETs, BJTs, ..). I even saw a '3055-model out there, but haven't used it.


Quote
You're a lucky guy; I've never even seen a NE5533. I suppose the two halves of the NE5533 are matched. Would be good for input stages, too.

You're right, the matching could be of use for some stuff. (Have to think about matched opamps a little more though - something probably seems to be too sensitive in the design when opamps need to be matched  :roll: )

I thought these samples were early 80's, Signetics branded. Don't know actually when they were last produced. Uhm, haven't checked them if they're still functional...

Bye,

  Peter

Rossi

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2005, 10:32:30 AM »
Quote from: "clintrubber"

You're right, the matching could be of use for some stuff. (Have to think about matched opamps a little more though - something probably seems to be too sensitive in the design when opamps need to be matched  :roll:)


Yeah, you're probably right. But there may be some designs where good matching is not essential but maybe just nice to have. Perhaps you could hand build an instrument amp such as the INA163 (take a look at the datasheet) using the two halves of the NE5533 as the input stage. Not sure it would be a good mic pre, but maybe a really cool line input if you chose a higher impedance.
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"

clintrubber

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2005, 10:37:46 AM »
Quote
But there may be some designs where good matching is not essential but maybe just nice to have.


It sure wouldn't hurt ! I was going to say there could be perhaps a good tracking of offsets, but that needn't to be true. I mean, look at this streo-amp (IC) that's on my desk here, the offsets of both channels are uncorrelated. And understandably so. Thermal tracking might about be the only benefit  :cry:

Maybe I should mount them in a Beh. box, placing them visible behind the window i.s.o. the tubes  :wink:
But serious, there will come a nice application.
BTW/FWIW I checked them, they're from '80.

Rossi

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2005, 10:50:49 AM »
Quote
Maybe I should mount them in a Beh. box, placing them visible behind the window i.s.o. the tubes Wink


Seriously, that's a cool idea!  :thumb:

I love those forgotten and transitory pieces of electronics. Like germanium transistrors, especially the later ones, when silicon had already taken over.
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"

clintrubber

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2005, 09:34:26 AM »
Quote
I love those forgotten and transitory pieces of electronics. Like germanium transistrors, especially the later ones, when silicon had already taken over.


Sure ! Especially when you can put old stuff that you had around anyway to good use. Simplest example would be a FuzzFace-pedal; AC128 didn't measure well so found some OC4x in one of the junkboxes that measured well & sound good.

clintrubber

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2005, 11:22:30 AM »
Going maaaad here...   :razz:  :wink:  :grin:  :?  :roll:  :?:  :!:  :?:

I mean, after those recent few '5533 samples discussed above,
I just ran into a sample of a NE5535...
Those old cabinets at work are really something.

But rest assured, unlike that 5533, the 5535 is not related to the well-known 5532/5534 opamps.
It's a dual opamp intended as a 747 or 1558 replacement.
With a GBW of 1MHz, and with inp.noise voltage of 30nV/sqrt(Hz) (but 0.15pA/sqrt(Hz)) it's different from the 5532/33/34.

All back to normal, bye. :thumb:

Rossi

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2005, 11:58:38 AM »
You have a cool job.  :wink:

I sometimes wonder how they make up those model numbers...

If the offsets are okay, maybe it could be used as a DC servo in an all-NE55-preamp.
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"

clintrubber

Free SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2005, 12:42:56 PM »
from Rossi:
Quote
You have a cool job.  

Don't get me started on those SQ-tubes in the (yet another) closet of a now retired colleague  :wink: (no 'hot' types though)

Quote
I sometimes wonder how they make up those model numbers...
I'm not sure either, it certainly doesn't always makes sense. Prefixes like TZA..., TDA... are often a good general indication but then again there are exceptions.

Quote
If the offsets are okay, maybe it could be used as a DC servo in an all-NE55-preamp.

That's a nice idea. Hmm, let's see, offset is 7mV max, over temp.


 

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