Rhode und Schwarz Tube Mic incl. Pics & Schematic (new)

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smallbutfine

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
765
Location
Northern End of Germany
:shock: We found an unknown tube microphone, that we would like to identify
It has a LOGO with the monogram "R S" some readings EZGN...
a kind of serial number 45F1865 , an engraving "Nr. 49", inside is a tube type Telefunken EF804S, it has a six pole connector.

HELP!

What kind of mic is this??? :shock:
Never had a tube mic before...

Kind regards

Martin
EDIT: Schematic at page 2 of this thread!
 
Hi,

Is it a bottle microphone?

Does it have a capsule fixed at the top which points slightly upwards?

Roddy
 
R + S is Rhode and Swartz. they made some very good broadcast gear, some tube and some solid state. They also made test equipment, and i know they made a test microphone. They made a solid state limiter for broadcast that totally kicks ass, IF you can find one!
 
Thank you for the fast help. The logo is definately the Rohde und Schwarz logo from their webpage. I already mailed them but i don't think i will get an answer soon-... if ever :grin: ...
I will try to get some pictures soon, my old buddy has the mic on his desk at the moment but we will meet soon this week (when i get my first ada-8000 and he is getting some dead cheap stereo pair of b*ringer condensers from thomann... :grin: ). I will use the twin-x space or host myself...

Thanks alot for now and watch out. Since Rohde und Schwarz make hiclass measurement equipement since 1937, it could turn out to be a little sensation for us. We found this mic in an old box in an unused fridge in our old bandroom years ago and thought it was some piece of old crap...since my friend dissected it and found a telefunken tube inside...

Martin
 
I've seen this type of mic as part of an automated frequency response analyzer by Rohde & Schwatz. The machine had a built-in plotter for the charts. Built probably during the late 60ies / early 70ies. Pretty huge thing overall, painted greyish / light blue.

Hope that helps.

Michael
 
Thanks alot Michael and strangeandbouncy! You helped me very much!!!

OK, it is definately a Rhode und Schwarz microphone.
Rhode and Schwarz don't have ANY material about this early types. :shock:
They were'nt able to give any information, a second source of tube mic specialist for german vintage mics confirmed that to me per email (no datasheets, no brochures, pics or dates available from R&S because they don't have them).

Now i have this mic ready for dissection on the desk.
Sorry no pics for now, no camera until end of the week, but some facts:

Good news first:
The specialst says there were inquiries for this type of mic in the past for restauration and equipping (cable/psu) and there's absolutely nothing against the usage as a studio mic concerning frequency response and noise. :grin:

The capsule.
After removing the grille theres a silver matte shiny plain diaphragm that looks like in good condition. (ok i'm a tube mic newbie...)
It's hold by an aluminium (?) ring and seems to be tensioned by 12 small screws to a brass ring. Diameter is 34 mm (1"). Theres a very high quality and worthy looking brass capsule holder that shields the back of the capsule with a glass (through this one i read the serial).
the tube holder is directly mounted with the capsule holder in a distance of (exactly) 1 cm.
This one looks WOW. (More like a swiss watch than a microphone!) :shock:
Like every single metal part :shock: of this mic, the capsule is handmarked (other parts are engraved) with a serial 60-85627.

between capsule and telefunken EF804s holder (serial or type No. 477 on the top of the tube and looking like unused) there's mounted and wired a long bordeaux coloured 300M Ohm resistor (Siemens, it is a rolled type?!) and a 1,00K piggypink resistor (closed type). the wiring goes beside the tube to the 6 pin tuchel connector thats mounted in a perfectly body fitting aluminium pipe.
between two opposing pins there's a green part soldered looking like a resistor but i dont know. the ends are shielded with transparent plastic, "5% 0 5" in the next line a logo and "u" (cap?) Yes, one of these both tuchel pins is ground / mic body connection to the aluminium pipe.

Everything feels like fitting with a tenth of a milimeter (i mean perfectly...)
The grille is very properly and precise fitted and soldered. i doubt this microphone has been opened EVER before.

Wow, a little bit like "time machine". Quite strange to me (i.e. TUBES, BIG CONDENSERS) but very fascinating. i wonder what type of psu to use with this one.

Again any help appreciated...
Pics of the inner live very soon (for your galleries of really rare stuff...)

Martin

PS: OK CJ i can feel what makes you stick to old tube'N'iron technology!
:grin: :grin: :grin:
 
I would guess it is a cathode follower design and maybe the transformer is is in the power supply box. look for a AKG c60 schematic it might be something like that.

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/5212/start.htm
 
Looks interesting!

I wonder what the capsule is like? Is it in good condition?

You are in a similar situation to me with my Reissmann condenser mic. A few condensers were designed without transformers in them which made them smaller and also more suitable for PA use.

If you search for Reissmann then you can read about what you can do with a microphone like this.

The capsule from mine is still being tested in another microphone.
 
The capsule "looks" very good though was not beeing tested now.
I sneaked already at your reissmann microphone thread... :wink:
i recently bought a microphone book from ebay where's a pic of an old r&s handheld broadcast mic, there's mentioned a design with transformer inside the psu box...
A few condensers were designed without transformers in them which made them smaller and also more suitable for PA use.
Do you mean it may be a complete transformerless design? Or transformer inside the psu box?

Kind regards

Martin
 
[quote author="smallbutfine"]The capsule "looks" very good though was not being tested now.

Do you mean it may be a complete transformerless design? Or transformer inside the psu box?
[/quote]

Hi martin, get that capsule tested!

I meant that some valve micropones have a transformerless output - ie. Hi-Z. I believe the Reissmann mics were designed to connect directly to a PA.

However, some valve microphones do have an output transformer within the power supply. It is not that common though.

Your microphones is certainly a strange looking design! I have not seen many end-fire lare diaphragm condenser microphones before - I can only remember the Lomo 19A19.
 
[quote author="rodabod"]
A few condensers were designed without transformers [/quote]
It must be completelly transformerless.
It is measuring equipment, not musical instrument.

Maybe cathode follower with rersistor, like Bruel and Kjaer do it.

But there exist some weird linearization of cathode follower with pentode, like ultralinear PA pentode stage. (but with using next stage), Not so boring. Maybe useful and suprise to see schematics :)

xvlk
 
Finally, i managed to get a photocopy of the whole measurement unit schematics.
("Abb.2 Stromlaufplan des Schallpegelmessers Type EZGN BN 4502")

Sorry, it does not contain any values for the resistors, caps or transformer types, but it shows the overall topology at least.
In the handheld mic that we got, theres only the EF804S, the capsule and two resistors...

Maybe some of the "tube freaks" on this board can help out how to turn the handheld in a functionable mic... :grin:
I must get hold of my wifes digital cam, but she's out for shopping right now. I'm happy to post the schematic later today (and yes, one copy for Kubi :wink: )...

Kind regards


Martin
 
I managed to put it up on the groupserver...
Photocopy quality was very poor but my "photoshop darling" (=wife) was able to maintain the original quality in a relatively small jpeg. It should be fairly readable.
Sorry, i have no BOM for this.
http://groupdiy.twin-x.com/albums/userpics/10089/R&S EZGN BN 4502 schem.zip

This is probably interesting for people interested in antique measurement techniques as the whole device is a volume / dB meter (arrgh, don't know if it is the right translation for "Schallpegelmesser")...

Maybe someone could help me out how to get the mic part of it working with minimum effort...maybe we can use a minimum psu and a lundahl LL1538 for this? Any opinions greatly welcome as i'm still very lost regarding tube electronics...

@kubi: copy is in your mailbox :wink:

Kind regards
and happy DIY :thumb:

Martin
 
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