Adding TAP-TEMPO functionality to old/analog effects

[quote author="smallbutfine"]Sorry to bother you again with that boring midibox stuff... :wink:
I digged again into that...building a mios based box for exactly your task is even more easy as i thought.


This application may be of use in other projects, too.

(Please don't shout me for excessive posting manners :roll: )

Happy DIY :thumb:

Martin[/quote]

Awesome info Martin, thanks for compiling. Tomorrow I'll print, get tea & study ! Nothing boring or excessive, looks definitely like good info. Be warned though, I might have a few questions :wink:

Thanks,

Peter

Don't hesitate to ask...i thought about building a midibox cv (app can be run on the same hardware as analog toolbox) for a long time, etched another core module last week (together with a gssl :grin: ) and looked looked for the max525 in my midibox bag...
i already built the SID synth and have a not finished but functional midibox sequencer V2 laying around...did some stuff for the midibox people before ... like digging up the "no parts" brokkoli-18 programmer (which i used to program some dozen pics flawlessly), german seq2 documentation translation, wiki-doc for pcb making/german...so i'm quite familiar with mios/midibox.

I just remember that there was even a cheap experimental aout module solution without the expensive max DA (something based on a resistor ladder i think...), have to search again...should make it even faster to start over as maxim samples request took quite long to ship last time...

Found:
http://www.midibox.org/users/kd/KDdac.pdf
(resistor ladder based aout, driver only available on request)
http://69.56.171.55/~midibox/forum/index.php?topic=2556.msg17995#msg17995
(ad5204 based digitally controlled resistor - aout module for breadboard build, driver link available!) I remember i was in email conversation with captain hastings before to experiment in a midi controllable mute automation based on this. nice to see he made this available to the public...)
BTW i saw these midibox guys are gone completely mad about extreme diy - two of them built their SID synth directly into their pc's, housed in an old CD box and directly connected to the cd in of their soundcards - and because of insufficient panel space wrote their own vst instrument to automate them!!!
THAT's crazy :shock: !

For the simplicity of makeing a digital LFO with lookup tables I would not worry to much about my gripping about them not sounding right, especialy since you know your programming. If you want the quicker to make route I would say go with a known VCLFO that is 1Volt/Octave and control it with a micro. Otherwise go with what you are the most comfortable with. I think both methods will give you perfectly good resaults and most people do not seem to have problems with the modulation in digital synths that I have.

Maybe the way to go would be just to generate a saw wave from a PIC and use analog wave shapping for other waveforms. That will give you the stability of digital and should get rid of most any digital artifacts that maybe on the waveform, mess them up abit and such. If nothing else a saw wave takes less space and is abit easier to program then a sine.

adam

Hi Martin (smallbutfine),

GREAT POST and links.

I will have to spend some time checking this out. Looks like great tools I didn't know about (but wished like h*ll I could find about a decade ago) <grin>

I need to surf around here more often

Thanks much!

:guinness:

Just found some info in a corner of my PC - obviously from a previous search for taptempo.

So FWIW, from Digital Projects for Musicians by Bob Moses:
http://www.bobmoses.com/dpfm.html

Project 5: Tap Tempo Transmitter. Control sequence tempo by tapping on a switch, which can not
only give a more "humanized" feel but also let you synchronize playback of your sequence to a
live drummer or vocalist. If you speed up or slow down, so does the sequencer; you can also
smooth out the tempo if your timing is a little jittery.

Click to expand...

but also:

MIDItools
Build your own MIDI devices!

I co-wrote a book entitled "Digital Projects for Musicians" which explains everything you need to know. Enter this area for information about our book, free schematic diagrams for the "MIDItools Computer", and free software for over 20 useful MIDItools applications. Most importantly, read about many of the systems people are using the MIDItools Computer in all over the world.

NOTE: This part of my sight has not been updated since 1996. I recommend going to the PAVO MIDItools site for current information.

Click to expand...

but that site is not around anymore like intended.

anyone knows this µC ? however, you are pretty alone if developing for this midi os if theres no community around that... however very interesting anyway...here you definately got the midi tap.
DA has to be made as well.....
:?

Digital Projects for Musicians is a decent book, has some good info and comes with the full midi spec which is nice. I Have seen it on ebay many times. Or try your library, oddly enough our local library has a great electronics section that contains at least 20 books on synths, includeing Digital Projects for Musicians.

Musical Applications of MicroProccessors is also a good book on this subject. Covers alot of useful stuff. Also out of print but shows up on ebay or on the used sections of Amazon and BN.

adam

[quote author="smallbutfine"]anyone knows this µC ? however, you are pretty alone if developing for this midi os if theres no community around that... however very interesting anyway...here you definately got the midi tap.
DA has to be made as well.....
:?[/quote]

Just wanted to mention it, FWIW - not considering it an alternative route since there seems quite a bit of dust on it...

Bye,

Peter

Hmm, look at this...

http://www.ploytec.com/34oneII/



Seems to be well thought out. Reading the manual made me aware of a few more issues that need to be addressed.

I have a PIC (from MaxMIDI) that can give pulses based on incoming MIDI clock so then the final step to drive the LFO for an FX is easy.

Might save myself quite some hassle to buy this MIDI-shortcut and just add the last few bits (LFO etc) myself. It may even get me time to get some music done :wink:

Couldn't find much user-impressions so I'm not sure yet whether this Ploytec-device does its timing well enough in uncontrolled environments.

Bye,

Peter

In England, when we were inspired by Hank Marvin to learn the guitar in the early 60s, we had a guitar, a lead, and a 10 watt amp - if we could afford one, and then .....holy smoke.....an echo unit!!!...and we had to play.....every note, with a real drummer!!!!!

Nothing to do with tap tempo, but a measure of how times have changed.

[quote author="StephenGiles"]In England, when we were inspired by Hank Marvin to learn the guitar in the early 60s, we had a guitar, a lead, and a 10 watt amp - if we could afford one, and then .....holy smoke.....an echo unit!!!...and we had to play.....every note, with a real drummer!!!!!

Nothing to do with tap tempo, but a measure of how times have changed.[/quote]
I sure see your point.
Todays musicians are definitely near or beyond the point of diminishing returns. And not seldom even a minus sign will creep in...

It depends on the FX of course, but often one can simply get away with a not too exactly adjusted LFO for 'vibrato' & related FX. Unless you need exactly delayed repeats of course, but the band will follow the knob-setting then...

For various stuff the whole tap-tempo stuff could also simply be replaced by manual (better: 'pedial'(sp?)) control by means of your foot on a rocker pedal.
But hey, always nice to think of some little system that realizes functionality you don't have around already and would be nice to have!

I wonder if the click out of a cheap, used drum machine with tap-tempo could be used to reset an LFO osc. hmm.

[quote author="Larrchild"]I wonder if the click out of a cheap, used drum machine with tap-tempo could be used to reset an LFO osc. hmm.[/quote]
The thing is to have some kind of 'memory', so that the adjusted LFO keeps running at the updated frequency. Might be needed to throw in a PLL or some other way.

I see your point though, the Ploytec-pedal does stuff that might already be present in other gear. H*ck, even a cheaper FX-processor as say the Beh. V-Amp might for instance be sending out MIDI-clock from its tap-tempo button.

But the Ploytec has dedicated functionality: the 3,4,GO-function is of course convenient for using it with sequenced stuff. For resyncing an LFO that won't be needed though.

Bye,

Peter

Hmm "Tempo-tap"...

I ran into one of these gadgets/tools/goodies for a good price, let's see how that could fit into all this...



It'll be more for sequence-control than FX I expect, but it might give ideas...