47 clone mic mod - which Guosheng 3U Audio capsule?

[mattrico]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time twerker (and poster, but twerker rhymed so I went with that first).

I'm looking at "making" a U47 tube clone, using a T.bone SCT-2000. (It's my understanding that this version of the mic (unlike Alctron, Nady) doesn't have the tube soldered in, does that sound right?)

Anyway, I'm wondering which capsule to use in it. I want to try a 3U Audio one because I've used one before and I liked what it did, and I think they're great bang for buck. I spoke to Guosheng and he told me:
"Our M7 capsule is between the normal k47 capsule and the darker (K47 capsule)."

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with all three capsules and could shed a bit more light on the sound differences?

At the moment I have an Advanced Audio CM67SE, a Nude Microphones 251, and a Shure KSM44a, and am looking for something that sounds different to these, mainly in the high mids and highs.

The AA mic doesn't sound as full in the bottom end as the Nude mic, it's a bit more mid focused, and also doesn't have much brightness up until around 6khz where it slowly rises to about +6db at 14khz. The Nude mic is noticeably brighter and accentuates more sibilance, it has a lot more going on in the high mids. The Shure is pretty flat except for high mids around that sibilant area (but a bit lower than the Nude mic), and not much in the highs (unlike the other 2).

So I guess I'm after something that has full lows / low mids, and flatter/smoother high mids and highs than I've got in those 3 mics. Obviously I'm leaning towards the darker K47 capsule but don't want to end up with something too dark. So figured it was worth asking here what people think. In terms of application, I'm speaking mainly about cardioid mode, for vocals.

Thanks in advance!

 

[kingkorg]

I know it's not the answer you've been looking for, but i think you just have to take a dive and try it yourself.

K47/m7 are not that much about their frequency response, you can use EQ to adjust that, various tests confirmed it's basically the same if you do it at the capsule or later with an eq. Even original vintage Neumann capsules are all over the place with response.

K47/m7 are about proximity effect, off axis response, construction. They are also hypercardioid capsules!
 
Guosheng did a great job there, and the capsule is accurate in that respect.

Fwiw i love ksm44, it is a very overlooked mic, perfect middle ground between C12, u47, u87 type of mics. If you stumble upon ksm32 try it, it has the qualities you are after, but not too dark.

Update:

This is a measurement between different m7 type capsules. All of them are well known and well made m7 capsules, but so different in response. Note that these are not absolute responses of the capsules, but deviations from original m7, which was used as reference, is quite old, aged and god knows what it has gone through.

 

[mattrico]

Hey, thanks for your reply.

That's interesting about the capsule variation, who would have thought? But you are right, I should be thinking about more than just the frequency response of each (I like to get it as close to how I want it as I can with the mic, before EQ, as I think this this just gives me better results in the long run).

It's my understanding that the M7 doesn't have much proximity effect until you get right on it, which is great if the singer doesn't have a weird phobia of getting right up on the mic (and in my limited experiences so far, it's harder to get them to do it than you would think it should be ;D).

People also talk about the M7 as being a bit of a magical beast in the studio - is that because it's less common than your regular k47 style, or is it indeed something special?

Maybe I should just buy a couple of capsules and play around, I could make a FET version with one and a tube version with the other (if only money were no object ).

It's definitely given me more to think about that's for sure!

Matt

 

[Purplenoise]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time twerker (and poster, but twerker rhymed so I went with that first).

I'm looking at "making" a U47 tube clone, using a T.bone SCT-2000. (It's my understanding that this version of the mic (unlike Alctron, Nady) doesn't have the tube soldered in, does that sound right?)

Anyway, I'm wondering which capsule to use in it. I want to try a 3U Audio one because I've used one before and I liked what it did, and I think they're great bang for buck. I spoke to Guosheng and he told me:
"Our M7 capsule is between the normal k47 capsule and the darker (K47 capsule)."

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with all three capsules and could shed a bit more light on the sound differences?

At the moment I have an Advanced Audio CM67SE, a Nude Microphones 251, and a Shure KSM44a, and am looking for something that sounds different to these, mainly in the high mids and highs.

The AA mic doesn't sound as full in the bottom end as the Nude mic, it's a bit more mid focused, and also doesn't have much brightness up until around 6khz where it slowly rises to about +6db at 14khz. The Nude mic is noticeably brighter and accentuates more sibilance, it has a lot more going on in the high mids. The Shure is pretty flat except for high mids around that sibilant area (but a bit lower than the Nude mic), and not much in the highs (unlike the other 2).

So I guess I'm after something that has full lows / low mids, and flatter/smoother high mids and highs than I've got in those 3 mics. Obviously I'm leaning towards the darker K47 capsule but don't want to end up with something too dark. So figured it was worth asking here what people think. In terms of application, I'm speaking mainly about cardioid mode, for vocals.

Thanks in advance!

I really like the 3u audio m7 in a u47. Really smooth and even. One of very best options out there.

 

[mattrico]

Thanks for the reply, I reckon that's the way I'm leaning too, I don't think I could go wrong with that capsule in this donor mic. And then I can always build another one with one of his k47 capsule options down the track if I feel like it.

 

[mattrico]

I just went looking for it but couldn't track it down. But based on comments from people that have used it, it sounds like what I'm after. I would love to hear it before purchasing but honestly wouldn't be too fazed if I didn't get to hear it, as I'm sure it's an impressive offering.

 

[mattrico]

I ended up getting his standard k47 capsule and dropping it into my Advanced Audio CM67SE mic. It sounds really nice, though now I'm kind of missing having a 67 sounding mic, so will probably get the t.bone mic to put this capsule into, and get another 67 capsule for the AA CM67SE. Trying to decide which capsule though, something under about $350 would be good. Any thoughts?

 

[mattrico]

Just an update, I decided on the 797 Audio k67 (6 micron) capsule and wow, this thing rocks. It's brighter than I had wanted for this mic but I actually really like it. The top end jumps out but it's smooth, even with my sibilant voice it just works perfectly. It has tonnes of clarity, it's really full sounding and has now become my main voiceover mic. I reckon studios will be able to drop this into a mix, add a bit of compression and that's it.
In terms of the 47 build, I ended up buying a SoundArt STM 5000, which is a version of the GT-2B, but has a soldered tube. It's going to be a pain to swap the tube but I got it for a bargain so I don't mind too much. I've heard about running the tube in parallel but I'm not sure if I can - I wrote more about it here t.bone SCT2000 (Apex 460) - U47 mod with both halves of the tube in parallel - so if anyone can help that would be amazing.

 

[vitopower]

member Wordsushi posted a clip of the Guosheng M7 in 2021 and it sounded really nice. I've asked him to re-up as the link is dead.
https://groupdiy.com/threads/3u-audio-now-has-an-m7-capsule.75042/page-2#post-952360