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Jeremysfx

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Apr 12, 2014
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3
I have some channel strips in an SSL 6K that need testing. They contain 38 RC5534N op-amps. I have no way of testing whether or not any of them are starting to fail. My tester says they are all working, but this tester is all or nothing and doesn't tell me if there is an issue somewhere. My plan is to just replace all the op-amps on the cards and get 1 channel working properly. Then I can use te cards to test other channels for other issues. My question is whether or not there will be any difference between using the RC5534N ( which are tough to find and expensive) and the NE5534P ( TI variant which I can get quite cheap).
Thanks
 
Welcome.

I would figure the chips are LEAST likely to fail or "start to go bad".

Think about your symptoms and ask "What would do that?"

Pots, of course.

Caps. And caps.

Then resistors.

 
PRR said:
Welcome.

I would figure the chips are LEAST likely to fail or "start to go bad".

Think about your symptoms and ask "What would do that?"

Pots, of course.

Caps. And caps.

Then resistors.

I checked all the caps and the resistors look to be ok. I cleaned all the switches as well.  I still have noisy switches on almost all channels, so maybe its just crazy dirty. I'm going to absolutely soak the switches in contact cleaner and give them a good work out. Maybe that is the issue.  I'm  looking at the op-amps since nothing else has made a bit of difference. I too think its unlikely to be the op-amps, especially on almost every channel, but I am running out of ideas to check. Maybe I just didn't clean the switches well enough.  I will take a closer look at the resistors as well. The problem is that the console was left on for a very long time without anyone using it. (2 years long!) I just hope the problem is something simple that I overlooked.
Thanks for all of the input.  Your help is greatly appreciated.
 
radardoug said:
Why are you replacing them if they are working?
That's the question. Are they working properly. I get distortion and many channels will have no audio until I give it a good signal. Then the audio comes through. They are unpredictable. The IC tester I have only tests if a signal is present, but not if its working to spec. I'm also not sure how reliable the tester is.
 
ICs - Highly unlikely.
Careful when choosing replacements as SSL tend to run the 6K ( & other consoles of that era) with a bit more than the usual +/-17V to +/-18V that is typical for other mixer makers. Get chips that are rated for +/-22V (seriously!).
The 5534 (usually) either works 100% or is dead. They don't often partially fail.

Switches - Fully agree with EMRR - switches are number one suspect.
If they are the Dialastat type on the routing sub-boards, these are no longer available from the traditional suppliers and are no longer manufactured. I know someone who has talked about getting an equivalent to these switches made, but so far it is all talk (and I expect no finance). I do have a respectable stock of 2-pole available. If the switches are Alps SPUJ, you can easily get replacements.
The switches on the motherboard and on the EQ routing & Dynamics routing sub-boards are often fitted  with Isostat (bigger relative of the Dialastat bus routing switches). These have the same pinning and actuator mech spec as Alps SPUN, Toneluck & Schadow switches, so are easily replaced.

Electrolytic capacitors.
An ESR meter is your best friend: old caps = high ESR = bad news (& no LF).
Through the life of the 4K & 6K consoles SSL fitted polarised (standard) electrolytics as well as non-polarised electrolytics.
Look out for leaked electrolyte from failed caps, particularly on the group amp subcard. This will easily ruin your day with wasting time chasing intermittent faults that come and go with temperature changes and humidity.

 
De-facto standard for SSL 4-6k consoles was Signetics NE3345AN. This was supplied by the factory as a lower noise upgrade for earlier consoles with other variants installed.
As per SSL factory calibration procedure, internal audio rails are to be set to +/- 18 VDC, all buckets ON.
While it is possible to get a slightly higher voltage if one turns off most of the buckets, I have yet to have a 5534 fail from over-voltage  due to this.
 
This is a fairly common topic.

My suggestion is to start measuring and quantifying performance.  If you have multiple identical strips, frequency response differences can help ID bad capacitors (reduced LF response). In general if you find a bad electrolytic, reaplace all of the same value parts since they are likely all from the same lot, and suspect.

+1 to Gareth's suggestion that ICs don't partially fail... The closest I've seen to that behavior was ICs in dirty sockets that had intermittant connections. I have no idea if that desk uses IC sockets . If it does maybe re-seat the chips in them. If not, never mind.  :-X

Signal dropping out, getting dirty, then coming back is indicative of mechanical switch contacts or  pot wiper contacts being oxidized. The increased signal voltage punches through a thin oxide layer,  the path conducts and the circuit works until it stops again.

I don't have any useful experince with magic elixars to restore old switch contacts. 

Good luck

JR
[edit]- one minor quibble about old ICs not dying, depending on the date code I vaguely recall some process issues with very old Raytheon ICs (I/F noise and outright failures)..    But later they got their process sorted and we used plenty of good raytheon parts at Peavey...  [/edit]
 
Everything important has been said before. But just to repeat everything from my perspective, which is running a facility with >20 analog desks:

1. switches: see John´s post above. But if they make a popping noise while switching then they are switching DC which means the surrounding electrolytics are leaky and need to be replaced - not the switch. If switches have contact problems and have gold contacts then use pure alcohol for cleaning. If they have silvercontacts then use something like deoxit or kontakt60. Always cover the PCB with towels to avoid any liquid + metal particles litter the PCB and cause leakage current.
2. broken solder: all parts which are prone to mechanical stress can at some point have broken solderconnections. Switches, pots, faders (if soldered directly), connectors, jacks, etc. Resolder these spots.
3. trimmers: uncapsuled trimmers have dirt problems, as well as the mechanical pressure of the wiper will get less over time. This means contact problems. Replace them. Capsuled ones are less likely suffering from dirt but still age will reduce the contact pressure. Knocking helps to find out if the contact force is low.
4. pots: see above. If they are scratchy then they may have DC on the trace. Recap the electrolytics surrounding them then turn them 50x and check afterwards if the still are scratchy
5. electrolytics: dry out over time depending on age,  heat and humidity. I personally tend to first recap (old) channels before I start searching for problems. In case ´lytics are the problem then it´s solved. If not then it sounds better/like new. Since there are many electrolytics in every channel there are many of them which can be the source of trouble. Measuring all of them is unpractical. As soon as they are unsoldered for measuring they can be replaced with new ones anyway. John´s advice to measure performance of a desk is a good advice though. It can oint you into the right direction.
6. tantals: I always replace them. They can go short if they die which means danger for the most circuits they are used in. Modern tants  (90s and later) are way more reliable and less prone to failure than older ones.
7. IC sockets: 70s and 80s gear often had colored (red and blue) sockets which lose their contact force and create contact problems. If you see red or blue sockets replace them. Buy precision drilled sockets (they have round holes for IC legs).
8. ICs: I had one 5534 fail in a circuit all my lifetime in an unpredictable way. Otherwise they work or don´t. No TL07x or LF35x failure here ever. If you see old chips with blackened legs then the silver surface has created oxide which makes contact problems, esp. in older sockets with springcontacts.
9. ribbon wires, esp if they have selfcutting contacts or any other cble assembies with selfcutting contacs: copper + air = copperoxide = contact problems: replace
10. all the rest: there´s not much left over since 95% is described above

good luck hunting down your faults
 
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