Aml ez1073 capacitor swap

[Purplenoise]

Hey guys. I am about to start building an AML ez1073 rack version. In the kit there are film, ceramics and electrolytics. In the original 1073 there are a bunch of tantalums and styrenes I believe.
Would it be worth using tantalums and styrenes like the original? Has anyone tried this with this kit?
If yes which ones should be tantalums and which ones styrenes? Can’t find that info.
Thanks in advance, cheers.

 

[Ricardus]

Every 1073 kit I've seen has included the necessary tantalums, so they have to be there.

 

[Purplenoise]

Every 1073 kit I've seen has included the necessary tantalums, so they have to be there.

Thanks, I haven’t looked at the parts yet but in the assembly instructions there is no mention of tantalums. Only ceramics, film and electrolytics.

 

[Ricardus]

I was looking at some pics, and it didn't look like there were any yellow tantalums that I could see, but that would be weird. Every good 1073 clone I've seen used tants in the signal path where they were in the original circuit.

Sometimes people list tantalums with electrolytics since they are a kind of polarized electrolytic capacitor, but I don't know.

 

[Purplenoise]

I was looking at some pics, and it didn't look like there were any yellow tantalums that I could see, but that would be weird. Every good 1073 clone I've seen used tants in the signal path where they were in the original circuit.

Sometimes people list tantalums with electrolytics since they are a kind of polarized electrolytic capacitor, but I don't know.

Yes, I think the only yellowish caps you see in pics are ceramics.

 

[TwentyTrees]

Yep, AML doesn't include tantalums. I've posted elsewhere about the differences I've heard (and measured) between tantalum and aluminium electrolytic in audio coupling positions in Helios and Neumann modules. In both cases, in blind tests I preferred tantalum.

Unfortunately, I only did those tests after building my last pair of AML ez1073pre modules. These are a bugger to modify post-build as there are so many sub-assemblies, otherwise I'd certainly sub tants in the same positions as the originals.

Edit: as to which those positions are, that I can't say. You should be able to work it out by comparing photos of originals to known PCB layouts and schematics though?

 

[Ricardus]

Yeah, he should be able to figure out which ones need to be tantalum from the schematic.

It's likely going to be some of the 10 uF and 22 uF elecros that need to be replaced.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Hey guys. I am about to start building an AML ez1073 rack version. In the kit there are film, ceramics and electrolytics. In the original 1073 there are a bunch of tantalums and styrenes I believe.
Would it be worth using tantalums and styrenes like the original? Has anyone tried this with this kit?

Styrenes are almost extinct; they are superseded by ceramic COG types.
Tantalums are expensive and fragile, and hated by many designers for their propension at dying on you in case they just see a tiny fraction of reverse voltage. When they fail, they go short, often taking off with them other parts of the circuit. When they came out they were presented as the best thing since sliced bread, but today, aluminium electrolytics technology has improved so much almost no one looks back.
Now I've seen many people claim they sound "better" but I won't waste any electrons debating about it.

If yes which ones should be tantalums and which ones styrenes? Can’t find that info.

Tantalums are typically 0.47 to 220 uf. Styrenes are typically a few pf to a few nF. No possible mistake.

 

[Purplenoise]

Yep, AML doesn't include tantalums. I've posted elsewhere about the differences I've heard (and measured) between tantalum and aluminium electrolytic in audio coupling positions in Helios and Neumann modules. In both cases, in blind tests I preferred tantalum.

Unfortunately, I only did those tests after building my last pair of AML ez1073pre modules. These are a bugger to modify post-build as there are so many sub-assemblies, otherwise I'd certainly sub tants in the same positions as the originals.

Edit: as to which those positions are, that I can't say. You should be able to work it out by comparing photos of originals to known PCB layouts and schematics though

Thank you. Yes that’s the next step but I thought maybe someone more experienced than me, that has done it, could give me some info. Maybe the aml circuit is optimized for what they offer and those changes are risky.

 

[Purplenoise]

Styrenes are almost extinct; they are superseded by ceramic COG types.
Tantalums are expensive and fragile, and hated by many designers for their propension at dying on you in case they just see a tiny fraction of reverse voltage. When they fail, they go short, often taking off with them other parts of the circuit. When they came out they were presented as the best thing since sliced bread, but today, aluminium electrolytics technology has improved so much almost no one looks back.
Now I've seen many people claim they sound "better" but I won't waste any electrons debating about it.


Tantalums are typically 0.47 to 220 uf. Styrenes are typically a few pf to a few nF. No possible mistake.

Thank you, Yes…but which ones do I replace in these ranges? All of them? I guess I’ll have to compare schematics and open up an original to study…

 

[TwentyTrees]

Thank you, Yes…but which ones do I replace in these ranges? All of them? I guess I’ll have to compare schematics and open up an original to study…

Bulk replacing aluminium electrolytic with tantalum is a bad idea, as some may be used for power decoupling (I'm not super familiar with the schematic, so you'd need to check). Tants in there could be bad news, liable to fail short or even (if exposed to reverse voltage) explode. You're likely looking at the coupling positions. A bit of research with schematics and originals is definitely the way to go.

 

[Purplenoise]

Bulk replacing aluminium electrolytic with tantalum is a bad idea, as some may be used for power decoupling (I'm not super familiar with the schematic, so you'd need to check). Tants in there could be bad news, liable to fail short or even (if exposed to reverse voltage) explode. You're likely looking at the coupling positions. A bit of research with schematics and originals is definitely the way to go.

Great thank you, from what I see all coupling caps on input stages are tantalums…more likely all or most caps in pf range are styrenes.

 

[Purplenoise]

So after comparing the schematics of aml, neve and some extremely useful info at JLM audio site I came up with this.

C42,37,54,45,8,64,68 and possibly 100 are tantalums

C28,29,44,53,43,49,56,60,55,58,9,10,6are styrenes

 

[TwentyTrees]

Great thank you, from what I see all coupling caps on input stages are tantalums…more likely all or most caps in pf range are styrenes.

From what I've seen on other designs from a similar period, that sounds about right.

 

[Purplenoise]

From what I've seen on other designs from a similar period, that sounds about right.

I might have missed a couple but those are the important ones in the gain and output sections. The eq section I’ll keep stock.

 

[TwentyTrees]

It goes without saying, but make sure triple check polarity of any tants before soldering.

 

[Ricardus]

It goes without saying, but make sure triple check polarity of any tants before soldering.

Why? Confetti cannons are cool!

 

[Purplenoise]

It goes without saying, but make sure triple check polarity of any tants before soldering.

Yup hahaha…tantabooms

 

[Purplenoise]

Why? Confetti cannons are cool!

1073..4th of July edition

 

[tblack]

hi everyone. first post here, hoping we're all having a fab weekend.. i've always been intrigued by swapping the relevant electrolytic with tantalum in my 500 series ez1073.. any updates on this subject? anyone with feedback after performing the mods? would love to hear..

all the best, Tom.