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Being ripped off by Gene Holder of Watermusic Studio and Tangerine Mastering

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Helios67

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
84
Location
Poland
I'd like to inform everyone about my unfortunate gear purchase from Gene
Holder. Gene manages a big studio in the New Jersey area
Water Music Recording Studios Hoboken NJ, runs Tangerine Mastering facility with his
partner Roger Johansen  Tangerine Mastering PR Profile.
He is also a recognized musician (the DB's and many other projects). I guess he is into gearslutz either. For a long time he sold vintage gear on eBay as "Crudler". I corresponded with Gene for 20 years, buying some of his gear and generally considered him a "vintage friend". In 2015 he told me that he and some friends were getting rid of a selection of old pieces including tube limiters (General Electric GE5 & Magnatech 31). On this occasion he asked me to send the money to his partner company Tangerine Roger Johansen. I sent $3050 on the 21st of August 2015, my friend sent another $1375. I received a regular invoice from Gene and waited to send a courier to him. I was then informed that the items were stored in Gene's friends storage, 9 hours drive from NJ and some difficulties arose in picking them up. I was waiting for more than a year,  receiving lots of excuses and many apologies all the while never receiving a  refund nor the items. I had been in contact with Gene throughout the whole  ordeal until he finally cut off all contact in November 2016. My calls were  not picked up and my emails were left unanswered.  In the end I lost $4425.  Gene has not traded under his eBay account "Crudler" since 2015, he is  however selling gear through one of his pals (this is his statement) as  "thegrumpylumpy". Since the seller behind "thegrumpylumpy" is using Gene's  email account, it is blatantly obvious that this is in fact Gene himself  selling under a new name. It really does not look good.  Be warned when  dealing with Gene even if he had a good reputation until now.  Maybe someone  who knows him in person might tell me what happened and why he decided to  cheat his old pals.  Also I guess sooner or later he might be listing my stuff (General Electric BA5 limiter and Magnatech 31). Please note these items are in fact stolen from me.  VERY BAD EXPERIENCE expecially when received from someone who you named a friend.... :(
 
Sorry.  He's certainly well known in trading circles.  Ratting him out is the best thing to bring the necessary pain.  Lots of people have referred to him as The Devil for awhile, can't say exactly why.  My few dealings with him have been fine, none recent. 
 
Thanks Doug for your input.  My previous dealings with him were fine either.  That is why I was extremely patient and offered different options to resolve.  Everything in vain.  I am undertaking a legal action as this is a substantial loss for me. 
 
Sorry to hear about your transaction with Gene - I've dealt with him in the past and it's been mostly okay, but lets just say I'm not surprised to hear your story...

I just wanted to add that Gene is selling on Reverb as well - his shop is "Tangerine Vintage".

I've had several great transactions with Helios67 (Wojcek) and know he's an honest and trustworthy person.

Again sorry you've had to deal with this...I've been ripped off before and it's terrible. (Avoid "Smith Craig" at Ocean Studios in Burbank).
 
"thegrumpylumpy" won a auction  I had on ebay a month ago.
Claiming that it wasn´t possible to pay thru paypal.....

Good to know
and good luck.


 
FYI i just bought some Marconi knobs from him on Ebay and they were shipped the same day and arrived the day after.
 
Bummer to hear.... I was the chief engineer at Water music for a bit. Nice spot
I've also had bad experiences with "Crudler" as well. Vintage limiters that ended up being noise gates.... Federal limiter that ended up being a "speech limiter".
took forever to resolve one, and I gave up on the other. I'd stay away from that guy.
 
mg73 said:
"thegrumpylumpy" won a auction  I had on ebay a month ago.
Claiming that it wasn´t possible to pay thru paypal.....

Good to know
and good luck.

I love this. Not possible to pay through paypal. Anyone say...RED FLAG.

Usually where there's smoke, there's fire. What an asshole.
 
Sorry to hear about your troubles. I've bought multiple items from Gene (AKA Crudler) on ebay, and haven't had a problem. Hope things get sorted out
 
Unfortunately not. After posting those message, I got an email from Gene Holder, who promised  to solve the things in a positive way again and after that .... nothing happened.  Communication breakdown.  I need to find proper debt collector, there are many of them, but this is difficult to choose. Thanks for your feedback.
 
There is some news about the case.  General Electric BA-5A I bought two years ago and never received from Gene Holder was listed on Reverb by his partner Roger Johansen  aka Tangerine.  When you consider to buy the one, please consider this is  the item I bought and never got from those guys.  Never got any refund.  I emailed about the case to Reverb.  They listed stolen thing.
The link is:
https://reverb.com/item/6050199-super-rare-1950s-general-electric-ba-5a-tube-limiter-western-electric-1126c-rca-ba6a
 
Helios67 said:
There is some news about the case.  General Electric BA-5A I bought two years ago and never received from Gene Holder was listed on Reverb by his partner Roger Johansen  aka Tangerine.  When you consider to buy the one, please consider this is  the item I bought and never got from those guys.  Never got any refund.  I emailed about the case to Reverb.  They listed stolen thing.
The link is:
https://reverb.com/item/6050199-super-rare-1950s-general-electric-ba-5a-tube-limiter-western-electric-1126c-rca-ba6a
Wow I just looked it said it was listed 9 days ago. I don't see anything there about this being a stolen item. What was Reverb going to do to help with this?
 
Helios67 said:
... They listed stolen thing.
The link is:
https://reverb.com/item/6050199-super-rare-1950s-general-electric-ba-5a-tube-limiter-western-electric-1126c-rca-ba6a

I do not know the seller in question and obviously I do not know you in person either. So, I am just taking your word for it and I would like to say sorry to hear your troubles. I have been bitten quite a few times.

However, in the eyes of the law Reverb is not listing a stolen item. The person who was supposed to have sold the item to you is also not holding a stolen item. It is just that the sale has not been honoured. Or your purchase has not been honoured.

There is also no legal case for a debt collector as there is no court order.

Taking a legal action is costly.  Your lawyer will advise you of the likely cost and the basis for the legal action, whether be not honouring the transaction or fraud.

I have probably mentioned this here before, if not somewhere else, but I once bought some audio transformers from a US seller and paid in full which was I think around $700. Never received the items and the seller ceased communications. About six months later I was in LA and mentioned it to a friend. He contacted the seller and about a week later the transformers arrived, with lesser quantity than what I originally bought and a refund for the balance.  I am still deeply grateful to my friend for stepping in. But he is certainly not somebody that one would like to mess with.  Though a music professional.
 
I emailed to Reverb that I paid for this compressor two years ago and never got the one.  ANd now the same seller is selling the same unit through their site. They told me they were sorry, the ad was removed, but they cannot do anything else.  No wonder.
I tried to solve the case in a positive way with no results excepting lots of excuses and stories. Then the seller stopped to answer mails or calls. A fraud.
 
dont know ur location, but in CA/US debt collector doesnt need a court order to go after a person.
u dont even need a lawyer. 
as long as u can proof money transactions,  and there is no delivery of goods(email confirmations  are legal documents);  u r good to knock on debt collectors door.
you/debt collector will go to court if no collection with in certain amount of time.
 
kambo said:
dont know ur location, but in CA/US debt collector doesnt need a court order to go after a person.
u dont even need a lawyer. 
as long as u can proof money transactions,  and there is no delivery of goods(email confirmations  are legal documents);  u r good to knock on debt collectors door.
you/debt collector will go to court if no collection with in certain amount of time.

Which means it needs a court order.

However, here in Scotland there is such a thing called small claims court  where you do not have to use a lawyer for sums involved upto GBP 3,000.00.

So, if what you are saying is  a similar sort of court then the debt collector must be acting on your behalf.

 
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