Black and White Marked §Rules§

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hotbaby

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
410
Location
Germany
I have a little annotation to Ethan,

an abridgement of the Black Marked Rule:
"...Any posts still actively advertising a business (stock parts, or kits being sold repeatedly rather than one-off transactions) in this forum will be deleted by May 18th, 2009."


The "White Marked" Idea is a really good idea and getting a accurate fee for managing the stickers is completely right.
My annotation for the "Black Marked" is that you should not delete business posts. You do not need to sticker anything there
and business people who sell there need to take part to all other posts... If they pay for, they can get stickered to the "White Marked".
You could delete business posts if they boost it up theirself but i really dont think that it is a good idea to delete them all...
some guys here do not want to pay to the forum and you should give them a chance to forward their business. okay without a sticker
but they can choose if they pay for your "sticker work" or not.

in my case the black marked rule must be revised.

best
Aaron
 

CroatianSensation

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
314
Location
Chicagoland
I agree with Mbria....

The problem with giving folks a free ride is that it leaves a huge grey area.
Excuses for long winded threads bickering over who should or should not pay.
I like the black and white of "Store Front" = white market....One offs/Trades = Black Market.
Easy.
No questions.
I think that $15 a month is more than fair.
If I had a virtual store I would have no issues with throwing down the cash for a few months to see if
my store took off.
If I couldn't cover the $15 a month I'd close for restructuring.
(or possibly a bail-out .......)
This of course is just my opinion.
I don't need it validated cause it's mine!

Ha Ha!   ;D
 

Echo North

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Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
4,433
Location
Seattle, WA
I personally think the White/Black Market restructuring has turned out really well.  The only way it will continue to work is if EVERYONE plays by the rules.

As a paying member, I would be pretty p'ed off if someone was given a free ride in the BM because they "didn't want to pay".

Mike
 

1954U1

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Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
468
Location
Italy
Echo North said:
I personally think the White/Black Market restructuring has turned out really well.  The only way it will continue to work is if EVERYONE plays by the rules.

As a paying member, I would be pretty p'ed off if someone was given a free ride in the BM because they "didn't want to pay".

Mike

Agreed 100%.
And 15$  a month is more than fair, yes.
If its because Tat that  it has happened, we should thanks him.. hehe.
 

hotbaby

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
410
Location
Germany
but what was wrong with the old forum and one black marked? paying for a sticky would be very great but i dont like that all business threads are going to be deleted now... in the threads have been interesting informations and pictures and who decides who is or becomes a "business-Seller"??? 15$ is to much for such a service if you have no other choice as seller "pay or i kick your ass".
For 15$ you get an accurat webspace with a lot of traffic to start you own shop... do i get an invoice as "business-Seller" for those 15$? Is the white marked really white or are there black deals like before without invoices...
strangely thing and i do not understand why you all aided this way.

if i want to sell something in huge qtys, do i need to pay 15$ per month? And if it is privat? Does the Forum say business to it and throws me out?
 

SSLtech

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
5,439
Location
Florida (Formerly UK)
If you're "selling something in huge quantities" wouldn't it be a little churlish to object to $15 a month?

I must confess, I'm struggling to understand what your objection is... but please don't misunderstand me;  -I WANT to understand.

Very specifically, -originally there WAS no black market, no white-market, no market at all.

People wanted to be able to sell/trade one-off items, (surplus things which they'd perhaps never use etc.) with other users who might be looking for exactly that.

Now -as an illustrative (and 100% true) example- in my garage at home -sitting completely unused- I have a console power supply. It has +18V, -18V and +48V. I acquired it because I thought I might use it for a console project, which I eventually realised I wouldn't build, and bought a console off the shelf instead. -So a perfectly useful power supply sits there unused. -I don't think I'll ever need it. -I should probably find someone who is looking for something just like it. -there's probably a user on this very forum who would LOVE to have it.

That's non-commercial. I can post an ad for that in the BLACK market.

Now, I also collaborate with Rochey, and we make and sell circuit boards for DIY projects. -Very soon we'll have a couple of other little (and they are in fact only small) boards which I've no doubt people will want to buy. We're NOT presently paying members, but soon we will be. Between now and then I shall NOT promote anything which we do.

That's commercial. I can only post an ad for that in the WHITE market.

So I'm not banned. I'm not PREVENTED from using the black market. I can still do so.

But several excellent enterprising people like Owel, like Ed Anderson, like Igor, like Gustav... (people who's boots I'm almost not fit to polish) are currently supporting this forum by paying to post their commercial ventures in the White Market. -In return, the admin here feel obligated to help by asking that they're not swamped amongst non-paying people.

Gustav, Owel, Peter Purpose, Igor, They're CORNERSTONE members. I have a significant respect for them. I feel that I owe them as just much as everyone else here does, and I'm grateful for their support of the site. In return, I feel that I have to support them by helping explain why I don't feel that other people should have similar 'privileged access' for "free".

Look at it this way, if Ed, Mnats, Chae and everyone else felt that they were no longer inclined to support the fora financially, it might collapse for everyone.

I don't fully understand what is 'unfair' about the present arrangement, but -please understand- if there IS anything blatantly unfair which I've missed, I'd be most grateful to have it explained, so that consideration can be given to correcting anything which is unfair or inequitable.

-Just for the record, I didn't make the rules... but I think they're a really good idea!

Keith
 

Emperor-TK

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Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
1,076
Location
NJ, USA
Maybe there is a language barrier here?  Commercial ventures are charged $15 per month to use this forum.  Non-commercial transactions are free.

>>>but what was wrong with the old forum and one black marked?
Prodigy did not get a cut of the commercial business generated as a result of this forum, and most of us agree that $15 per month is fair compensation for hosting and maintaining the site that makes the transactions possible.

>>>who decides who is or becomes a "business-Seller"
Ethan and the other moderators.

>>>15$ is to much for such a service if you have no other choice as seller "pay or i kick your ass".
Don't sell anything here if you can't afford the $15.  You have other choices besides The Lab.  And if $15 is going to put you in the red, you might want to rework your business plan.

>>>For 15$ you get an accurat webspace with a lot of traffic to start you own shop...
Yes.  So what's the problem with the fee?

>>>if i want to sell something in huge qtys, do i need to pay 15$ per month?
Yes.

>>>And if it is privat? Does the Forum say business to it and throws me out?
What do you mean by private?  Do you have large quantities of personal items that you want to sell here?  
 

okgb

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
5,807
Location
Winnipeg Mb Canada
it does seem like new members complaining more

if you can find a better value for 15.00
or something that makes more sense to you
feel free

if you want to find questions for your answers
probably not here
 

grw

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
22
Location
SW MI, USA
The only question that I would bring up with regard to this is on the level of large quantity "one off" buys.

As an example - if one of the members builds a new design compressor (again, this is just an example), and documents it on "the lab", and a bunch of the other members decide they really like it and all want to build it, the first person to build it may be willing to go to one of the PCB manufacturers and order a "group buy" of 200 of these things, and sell them either for what he/she has into it, or possibly even make a small profit.

This person has no interest in making a store, but does this type of thing once in a while to keep costs down for others on the board.  Would this fall into the "black market" still, or at what level would it need to hit before it is required to fall into the "white market" realm?

 

Echo North

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Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
4,433
Location
Seattle, WA
Ethan has stated that group buys belong in the BM. 

With all group buys it's unavoidable that the organizer would either lose or make a little money.  I think we all agree that someone running a group buy should pad their price a little so they don't end up losing money for their kind gesture.

Now in my opinion, if they are running a single large buy with the intent of making money, that is different.  They should just add 3 months (or whatever) to their cost and post it in the WM.

IMO this is the only grey(ish) area with the new system, and it will require people to be honest and up front with their intentions.

Mike
 

owel

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Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
1,088
Location
Nashville, USA
15$ is to [sic] much for such a service

hotbaby, I venture you haven't sold anything on eBay?  or you would have realized that $15 A MONTH is a small price to pay. (and eBay is only one example... try advertising on Google AdWords or a magazine!)

you have no other choice as seller "pay or i kick your ass".

This shows your lousy attitude. You're looking at all this ass-backwards.

And not only it's a small price, but you're supporting the forum directly as well.  That keeps the forum going, pays for server upgrade, hosting, etc...

and who benefits from the upgrades and use of this forum?  US! and by "us", that includes you too!

So what are you whining about?  

Newcomers just don't have any clue on how ProdigyPro came to the rescue and hosted this DIY site.

do i get an invoice as "business-Seller" for those 15$?

You paid via Paypal. There's your invoice and receipt! Print it!


But wait! There's more...

You have plenty of choices. You don't have to hawk your wares here. You can sell on eBay, pay more than $15 PER ITEM for closing value fees and listing fees, and you'll be making shareholders and CEOs rich.  These MBA execs will be grateful and thank you for doing that.... NOT!

Parting words...

Why is this $15 such a big deal???? I don't understand.  Why do people have to be so technical... i.e. how much qty do I need to sell before it's considered white market, etc... blah blah blah

If an extra $15 expense will put a monkey wrench in your business plan, and make you go out of business...well, you have bigger problems.


 

[silent:arts]

Well-known member
White Market Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
5,139
Location
Berlin, Germany
grw said:
... if one of the members builds a new design compressor (again, this is just an example), and documents it on "the lab", and a bunch of the other members decide they really like it and all want to build it, the first person to build it may be willing to go to one of the PCB manufacturers and order a "group buy" of 200 of these things, and sell them either for what he/she has into it, or possibly even make a small profit.

This person has no interest in making a store, but does this type of thing once in a while to keep costs down for others on the board.  Would this fall into the "black market" still, or at what level would it need to hit before it is required to fall into the "white market" realm?
if a group buy of 200 PCBs takes one month just go to the white market, costs would be $0,075 each PCB.
double for a running time of two months, etc.
I doubt anybody will have a problem with this amount added to the price.
I have added a $0,50 donation to each sold PCB set the last time I did a run. there haven't been any complains about it.
Now it is cheaper for me  ;D ;D ;D
(but i can still donate the difference too  :eek: )
 

diyfanatic

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Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
502
Location
Paris, France
really I don't understand your point hotbaby  ???
15$ a month is too much!!! damm

people want all for free...it's sad.
so much ungratefulness is killing me...

Jeff from classicapi, last time I bought some knobs from him, re-sent me some money cause he had a lower price on them!  :eek:
I was really suprised. the guy had a web store, so he has some bills to pay for his web site, he has a lot of energy doin this for little...and he pays the 15$ without moaning! "chapeau bas monsieur". (I think about the others guys too)
I decided and ask him to donate the difference to the board.

this is the board I felt in love...

I bought from Mnats, Owel, Volkers, Mike from Hairball, Gustav and all of them were kind, patient and dedicated to their project.
I'm pleased to give them my money.

you want to be in the white market, making profits and the others paying for you???
damm dude!

rough times...

 

PRR

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Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
11,144
Location
Maine USA
>>>who decides who is or becomes a "business-Seller"
> Ethan and the other moderators.


No. It is Ethan's forum, and his call.

I was not consulted, and would not want to be involved.

I just want a nice place. Sometimes that means cleaning-up a mess: gross spam (male-pills, hair lotion), accidental post in wrong section, garbled quotes and URLs. Maybe a smooth word, though sometimes intervening in a fight is a waste of time.

If I wanted the glory and headaches of vetting members and finding funding, I'd run my own forum.
 

sodderboy

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Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Messages
1,945
Location
Long Island
I liked the Black Market, and even though it was my least visited area, my one group buy participation and one trade for 2 DI transformers for a honkin' huge AC power transformer were great.  I have seen the "kits" and "boards" dudes spend tons of time, based on my inability to read all the answers to posts, trying to meet the multitude of personalities and questions. 

There is a difference between "hey how many want this widget; I'll organize a group buy" and "here are these widgets for sale".  There is a clear line there.

Was it PTown who dealt with hundreds of thousands of resistors making the mass kits?  Who would dare put that in the White Market?  Who would want make the choice?  How?  Come to think of it, is anyone doing anything with all that epoxy encased metal oxide?

I like the split even better, and expect to visit both more often.
Mike
PS: all said, I think that "you know who" should be given a chance to show that he is indeed NOT Malkjos.

PPS: Where is the link to the new Markeds?

 

CroatianSensation

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Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
314
Location
Chicagoland
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh man this is getting OLD!   ::

I don't understand what the problem is...and at this point....to be perfectly honest...DON"T CARE.
I really like the new set up.
I am grateful that a place like this exists.
$15  a month IS CHEAP!!

If you think it's too much DON'T OPEN A STORE FRONT.

I'm with PRR the whole way....I "want a nice place" to hang out online..though I could use some hair lotion.

Kapeesh?

(did I mention I've had a long day?)
 

rrs

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Joined
May 28, 2005
Messages
517
Location
Wagga Wagga - NSW,Australia
I like the new White/ Black forum. Makes things easy to find.

Very dissapointed in the missing Black forum threads gone missing as they had some importand build info. But I guess that's all tied up with the Tat saga. I hope knowone with orders has lost contact.

$15 seems a small price to pass in the the buyers and don't think there could be any issues there. Anything to keep the forum running and fair.

 

Arno

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
454
Location
Belgium
guys!


It's black Market, not back market


;D ;D


But I really like the "new" forum. It's great to have this separated, and I'm glad that our host has now found a way to get a small amount of money in return for the amazing service he's been giving us freely for years. If I had something to sell and promote on this site, I would be happy to pay 15$ monthly.
Don't forget that this place is the best advertising one can get for diy stuff, and at 15$ a month, it's a bargain !!!
 

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