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Emperor Tomato Ketchup said:
What do you mean by private?  Do you have large quantities of personal items that you want to sell here? 

yes, i am going to sell metal bands for shielding torroids and am not sure selling it here. it is not my suppose to call it business as i have other things to do... and i dont want a sticker for my thread... So there seems to be no compromise to me. I do not like those "business" Forums at all as they are freeware forums by the way... No programmer cryes for money if this forum makes money... why does this forum cry... arent the members those people, who make a forum beautiful and interesting? But this forum crys for money if the members make money? It is not cause the 15$ it is the principle that theres no compromise between those people who are not business/company sellers or privat ones. If the moderators difference it themself (business/privat) so i do not want to prepare any thread with the metal bands if i am not sure to be delated as privat seller.

all threads in the white marked who does not pay, will be delated or do they just stay unstickered?

My offer of these topic was that it would be better paying only for stickers and the unstickered threads should NOT going to be delated if they are from privat sellers. and privat sellers are those who have no shop, no invoices etc... where are the guidelines for it?


 
First off to the members of the board - thanks for the clarification on the "group buy" situation - I understand now.

To hotbaby, with your comment about selling metal bands for shielding torroids:

My belief would be (and moderators, please correct me if I am wrong) that if you had a whole bunch of them laying around that you want to get rid of, then it would go into black market.  If you plan on either purchasing these or manufacturing them continually for the sole purpose of selling, then by definition this is a business - no matter how small it is or how profitable it is.  As such, it belongs in the white market, and I see no reason that another business should house your storefront for no cost.

We have to remember, the web server that this board is housed on is run by a for-profit business who -thus far - has been gracious enough to donate some of their bandwidth, processor clock cycles, and hard drive space to a group of people who may otherwise purchase their equipment if those people didn't have the capability of building the equipment themselves. 

Please forgive my bluntness and harshness, but asking them to house a storefront (that could be taking from some of their profits) on their servers for no cost is simply belligerent and arrogant.  $15 is a tiny price to pay for that exposure!



 
yes, it is a group buy situation. I will try it out... as i am not depend on selling things i would stop it here if anybody wants a fee... no matter about the value.
Thanks for your useful answer.
 
Yes, the distinction is that if you're seling off what you have in order to convert some spare/leftover stuff into cash, that meets the 'personal sale' definition. -Have at it, and good luck.

-If you're going to be offering these as a permanent arrangement, replenishing stock as you sell more, then that to me meets the 'commercial sale' definition.

Keith
 
Thanks Keith, same thought. Perhaps this definition should be written down in the "black marked" info too.
 
SSLtech said:
Yes, the distinction is that if you're seling off what you have in order to convert some spare/leftover stuff into cash, that meets the 'personal sale' definition. -Have at it, and good luck.

-If you're going to be offering these as a permanent arrangement, replenishing stock as you sell more, then that to me meets the 'commercial sale' definition.

Keith

Doesnt mean that its black market if I order 2000 units to start with though.

Its probably pretty hard to define the boundary formally. I have a feeling we all have a sense of where its drawn though. N´est ce-pas?

Gustav
 
I'd like GB's to be white market, I'm sure we could stump $15 on the total order and still save a bunch.

cap on sales posts in the black market, 1 a month

Its now officially two years since I got sober, so please forgive me, but i'm starting to get high on life

Iain
 
I don't think that any simply-worded distinction is going to be infallible, and there will always be a way to confound/conflict/confuse.

But I also hope that for now we hopefully have a good sense of what is acceptable. -If someone's deliberately abusing the black market, or excessively stretching the bounds of credibility, we should be adult enough to recognize it for what it is?

-Or am I being overly naive? -Lord I hope not.

Keith
 
SSLtech said:
I don't think that any simply-worded distinction is going to be infallible, and there will always be a way to confound/conflict/confuse.

But I also hope that for now we hopefully have a good sense of what is acceptable. -If someone's deliberately abusing the black market, or excessively stretching the bounds of credibility, we should be adult enough to recognize it for what it is?

-Or am I being overly naive? -Lord I hope not.

Keith

I don't think you are. 

I think the new system is pretty straight forward with very little grey area.

Mike
 
rrs said:

Also disagree.  My friend just sold a bunch of parts in the B.M. and a 1 per month rule would have made that impossible.

However, since my friend and I are working together on some stuff and I, indirectly, benefited from those sales (less of his clutter in the shop), I donated a little $ to the forum in gratitude.




 
didn't mean 1 item, i meant one thread

if its being abused by certain members we should be able to pick it up quick enough

Iain
 
IMHO the new white/black market split definitely has merit.

Having said that, we should be careful not to be too strict about the split. We're a (relatively) small community, and I agree with Keith that we should be able to police ourselves.

I feel that some other fora are way too anal about all of this; in some instances I get the feeling that you pretty much need to get an accountant's statement to prove that your dealings are not-for-profit. It would be a loss if people who are selling stuff can't talk about it outside of the WM (as seems to be the rule elsewhere). Would we want John Hardy to stop posting 990-related advice in threads in The Lab? And I for one are pretty excited to hear what Keith and Rochey have up their sleeve!

On GBs and the WM: there are some practical issues. Wouldn't it be best for buyers, sellers and forum host to keep the WM relatively uncluttered? There's also the matter that most group buys end up running at a loss, and that several GBs end up taking longer to finalize than planned due to external factors, so it can be hard to budget how many months times 15$ the WM listing will cost.

JDB.
 
jdbakker said:
On GBs and the WM: there are some practical issues. Wouldn't it be best for buyers, sellers and forum host to keep the WM relatively uncluttered? There's also the matter that most group buys end up running at a loss, and that several GBs end up taking longer to finalize than planned due to external factors, so it can be hard to budget how many months times 15$ the WM listing will cost.
true in every single point.
why not add a fixed fee for real group buys in the black market and they get a sticky as long as they run ?
 
hotbaby said:
why not only paying for stickys?
in my experience you are impossible to calculate a real "non profit" group buy.
shipping costs vary over time, paypal fees (most group buys are paid there) vary from country to payment mode (credit card, bank transfer, etc). it is impossible to do.
today I got a long awaited PCB package back, have to resend it. the list goes on.

I have had a major loss with my D-LA2A package group buy. the Drip LA2As have been quoted 1:1.
The PSU transformers have been quoted 1:1.
well, my bank transfer to Drip was expensive on my part.
and I forgot to include the high shipping costs with the transformers (weight).
I didn't forgot to calculate the shipping costs, they have been paid.
but the EUR 8 to 12 paypal took from each payment due to the high amounts of payment ::)

thus I can only recommend to anybody organizing a group buy:
calculate very conservative, with some profit.
calculating a fixed fee for the group buy, if sticky or not, is easy.
and it helps our host to keep this running.

as said before, I have never had any complains from any buyer saying EUR 0,50 of the price is a donation to the group DIY.
 
Hey hb , why do you keep trying to stick
your Square peg in a round hole ?
argueing to get what you want ?
if the greater good [ numbers ] is served
then it's working

I find it exciting the number of stickies in the WM
more than i have time for and more than enough
to keep me busy & satisfied , thanks you all

btw i find the BM / WM  clear & literal
 
yes seems so, i wanted to know if theres a compromise letting busniess threads stay and unstickered in the black marked.
But theres no one who is unhappy with it like it is now instead of me so i think i need to appease myself :)
let us see how it plays out.
 
HB, if your a business your making money and as such should expect to pay for advertising, hence the white market.

stickies just keep you at the top of a forum, your order in the stickies changes as you receive posts.

I'm struggling to work out why any business would not want advertising thats so demographically perfect for just $15 a month. If I could get that for my daytime job (auto welding) id join up under a second name to try and get two stickies!!

Hb, sorry, but im beffuddled by your request

Iain
 

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