• If you have bought, sold or gained information from our Classifieds, please donate to Group DIY and give back.

    You can become a Supporting Member which comes with a decal or just click here to donate.

Caveat Emptor (buyer beware)

Help Support GroupDIY:

Winston OBoogie

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
2,686
Location
UK.
Correct. As the pronounciation for "veni vedi vici" is Wenny Weddy Wicky.
Actually, I never had Latin. I'm bragging because I heard it just the other day on the radio.

I was only bragging because I read a book about 25 years ago, a 'Latin For Dummies' thing. I haven't really much clue other than the phrases we still use today.
Very few of which we seem to pronounce as originally spoken, even by those folks in the medical or legal professions.
Such is language I guess.

Pro bono publico: Caveat emptor ET caveat vendor.
Ad otium...
 

JohnRoberts

Well-known member
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
21,850
Location
Hickory, MS
Time for a bump back onto topic.

The rules have been tweaked to prevent new members from posting links and other potentially fraudulent behavior but we all still need to alert about private transactions. If the other party is a new member with no or very few posts, maybe don't take the risk. Further if the deal sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't.

Be safe, be careful, and caveat... buyer or seller.

JR
 
Last edited:

cyrano

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
1,295
Location
Europe
I believe the buyers have to file a claim and you get 30 days, as a seller, to reply before they refund them. At least that’s how It’s been for me.

Paypal is a dodgy operation. I've used it for years to buy and sell. Never much of a problem. Small amounts, nothing important. Way more buying than selling. Buying wasn't a problem.

Until I had a pile of network gear to sell. After a few sales, PP decided to block my account, without specifying a reason. I still had a few hundred in there. It never got resolved. I already was fed up with buyers complaining for one reason only: to get their money back. Like one guy who bought a Cisco router from ebay. It was listed with "password reset doesn't work, for spare parts" in three languages. It sold for 10€. He complained, I refunded after a few emails. That was OK for ebay, but not for PP.

To me, it was clear PP was acting on that one ebay sale. Shortly after that, ebay acquired PP. I've seen ebay block accounts for no reason at all several times. Some seem politically motivated.

Since that day, I use normal bank transfers only. I also no longer sell on ebay. Way too much scamming, like a 10$ product with a 100$ transport fee. I know some banks charge a lot for int'l and currency exchange, but mine don't. If the buyer/seller doesn't want to use bank transfer, I simply don't buy/sell.

Have had not one payment problem since. And bank transfers are near instantaneous these days. Except to the USA, perhaps. But transport to/from the USA is so expensive, it doesn't matter.
 

cyrano

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
1,295
Location
Europe
Funny.

Bought a possibly locked Macbook Pro via a local 2nd hand site (also owned by ebay). I was thinking of picking it up tomorrow, as I'm going to town anyway.

Just got an email from the seller he'll send his address when I call him...

Think I don't really need that MB Pro. It was just curiosity anyway.
 

lindes

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
15
Location
Brussels
I just had a bad experience from the Black Market here. Seller say a preamp as good sound and well built. I pay half by bank transfer and pay the other half when the seller delivered. Preamp unusable, lot of noise on both channels, shield on transfo not done, main PCB not fixed on the rack's bottom, grounding scheme not good, etc. Just send today the preamp for repair at a technician... The seller denies all that, and pretend he used the preamp like this, who's is impossible.
 

moamps

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
1,984
Location
Croatia, HR
IMO, I'm not sure that transaction could be called a fraud. According to the pictures in the ad, it can be seen that the main board is not fastened with screws to the bottom of the box, nor that the mains transformers are shielded (and why should they be?). You can also see a kind of grounding network. So you have seen (or should have seen) what you are buying and you cannot criticize it afterwards unless you have agreed with the seller that he will modify it before shipping. The chassis looks very good, and the material used is of good quality, so the price of 400 Euros is not too high. Furthermore, as far as I can see the device was sent to you in just a few days. And you very quickly concluded that it was not working well and sent it for repair.

In terms of quality of work, DIY devices do not pass professional quality control, DIYers have mostly limited knowledge of electronics and only basic test tools, and often a very very very subjective opinion on whether something works well or not. This should always be kept in mind when buying a DIY device. So a preamp that might have served him great for a kick microphone won’t be satisfactory to you for your ribbon placed in front of the harp.

That is why there is always a danger that there will be a misunderstanding that I think you can easily resolve, simply because it is a well-known and very documented DIY project from this forum.
 

lindes

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
15
Location
Brussels
IMO, I'm not sure that transaction could be called a fraud. According to the pictures in the ad, it can be seen that the main board is not fastened with screws to the bottom of the box, nor that the mains transformers are shielded (and why should they be?). You can also see a kind of grounding network. So you have seen (or should have seen) what you are buying and you cannot criticize it afterwards unless you have agreed with the seller that he will modify it before shipping. The chassis looks very good, and the material used is of good quality, so the price of 400 Euros is not too high. Furthermore, as far as I can see the device was sent to you in just a few days. And you very quickly concluded that it was not working well and sent it for repair.

In terms of quality of work, DIY devices do not pass professional quality control, DIYers have mostly limited knowledge of electronics and only basic test tools, and often a very very very subjective opinion on whether something works well or not. This should always be kept in mind when buying a DIY device. So a preamp that might have served him great for a kick microphone won’t be satisfactory to you for your ribbon placed in front of the harp.

That is why there is always a danger that there will be a misunderstanding that I think you can easily resolve, simply because it is a well-known and very documented DIY project from this forum.
I disagree. If I offer you to buy a "good sounding and well built preamp" for 400€ and when you test it is not at all well sounding with an very unacceptable level of hum and noise and the groundings is not even well doing, I don't think it's honest. (I asked to Jakob if the transfo must be fixed, soldered and grounded, he say YES). I will be ok if the seller announced that the preamp have some problems and must be checked and repaired. I can decide then if I want to take the risk, the time and the money to fix it. Now, that is not 400€ . It is more and I don't know how much yet (are the lamps ok ?). If I buy a preamp announced as ready to use (good sound), I would expect that. If not I loose my time and money and I feel myself be cheated.
And what's my fault ? I trusted the seller.
 

lindes

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
15
Location
Brussels
If the pictures are ones of the actual unit you received, it doesn't look so bad.
Yes but you can't record with a picture or a beautiful appearance. It was announced to be good sounding and then in my understanding, ready to be used as a recording preamp. For me that's the point: false information about the real state of the pre, that can't use...
 

abbey road d enfer

Well-known member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
13,725
Location
Marcelland
Yes but you can't record with a picture or a beautiful appearance. It was announced to be good sounding and then in my understanding, ready to be used as a recording preamp. For me that's the point: false information about the real state of the pre, that can't use...
You criticize the fact that the PCB is nor secured to the chassis, but I can clearly see the sticky plastic feet. They are not the ideal solution long term, for sure, but they are here. And the grounding seems to be adequate.
Now, in terms of sound quality, there are so many diverse aspects. The person who sold it to you may think it does sound good, because it has low distortion and good transient response, and not be concerned with noise. Don't discount it may have been damaged in shipment.
 

lindes

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
15
Location
Brussels
You criticize the fact that the PCB is nor secured to the chassis, but I can clearly see the sticky plastic feet. They are not the ideal solution long term, for sure, but they are here. And the grounding seems to be adequate.
Now, in terms of sound quality, there are so many diverse aspects. The person who sold it to you may think it does sound good, because it has low distortion and good transient response, and not be concerned with noise. Don't discount it may have been damaged in shipment.
Well, grounding is not. The mains ground cable is connected to the metal housing of the XLRs, not on pin 1... And the shield of the input/output transfo's is not welded to the base (means not shield). I'm waiting the answer of a Tube amps technician who have the adequate tools to test the lamps. If I'm sure the lamps are ok, I can start to check and correct the grounding problems. Thanks for the answer.
 

scott2000

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
2,693
Location
Sunny...Sometimes Florida- USA
Don't discount it may have been damaged in shipment.
Certainly. I sold a super nice Summit compressor on the bay years ago. It went to Columbia or somewhere in South America. The guy said it sounded like doo, which wasn't the case when it left me. Something was wrong with it. It was a frustrating couple of weeks before his tech found something had come loose during shipping. Wish I could remember what it was.
But yeah, that G9 looks nice. Hopefully it'll all come out in the wash as they say.
 

abbey road d enfer

Well-known member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
13,725
Location
Marcelland
Well, grounding is not. The mains ground cable is connected to the metal housing of the XLRs
That is not incorrect.
, not on pin 1...
That is incorrect. Do you mean Pin is not connected at all?
And the shield of the input/output transfo's is not welded to the base (means not shield).
Do you mean tehre is no galvanic connection between the shield and ground, or do you mean the case is not connected?
 
Top