census

[JohnRoberts]

The latest political scrum is about the 2020 census...  (if you are not a citizen raise your hands and back up two steps.).

As we are almost 20 years into the 21st century is seems a little archaic to use a paper form.

I will speculate by 2030 we probably just buy the data from facebook, or whomever suceeeds them...

Argue among yourselves.

JR

 

[Tubetec]

Not sure how the census is done in the US ,but here its maniditory for the house owner to declare everybody who resides under the roof . Ive noticed in recent years the questions are getting more and more personal ,at the same time I trust the government less and less with my data .
One thing that irked me in particular was last time they had a question relating to race/colour ,
Are you Irish?

Black Irish?

Other Irish?

How f*****ing dare they


Another one which didnt apply to me ,but was very intrusive was ,how many children have you given birth too ?

I usually prepare a snag list for the census collector ,pointing out questions I disagree with on principle ,apparently they can fine or jail you if you refuse to comply . The government here have an apalling record on data protection ,not to mention child trafficing and obfuscation of adopted peoples real identity . My guess is theres big changes in the way anyone processes and uses our data coming in very soon ,and I for one cant wait to see government agencies getting their asses whipped over it .

 

[Matador]

Much like repealing the SALT deductions in the tax bill, having a citizenship question puts the screws to the blue states more than red states, since those states with the majority of undocumented workers went for Clinton (4 out of 5 of the biggest).

 

[JohnRoberts]

As usual it's about the benjamins, but do non-citizens deserve full representation in congress and taxpayer funded spending? (rhetorical)

JR

 

[ruffrecords]

In the UK the law, according to wikipaedia, is:

Under section 8 of the Census Act 1920, whoever refuses or neglects to comply with the census, makes a false declaration, makes, signs, or delivers a false document, or causes the same, or refuses to answer, or gives false answers, shall be liable on summary conviction and face a maximum fine of £1,000.[17][18] Exceptions exist for refusing or neglecting to respond to questions about religion, as stipulated by the Census (Amendment) Act 2000.

The religious factor is interesting. At the last census, owing to the popularity of Star Wars, a very large number of people entered Jedi Knight or similar for their religion. So many people did this that it it is now an officially recognised religion in th UK.

May the Force be with you.

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

There are also plans afoot to make the 2021 UK census mainly an online affair:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_2011

Cheers

Ian

 

[abbey road d enfer]

In France, according to the human rights declaration, skin colour and religion cannot be asked.
I would not answer this question if I was asked.
There have been debates about this, since it results in a lack of data, that some agencies claim would help targetting their action, but the general consensus is against it. Remember we had the Vichy administration.

 

[living sounds]

As usual it's about the benjamins, but do non-citizens deserve full representation in congress and taxpayer funded spending? (rhetorical)

JR

Are they not taxpayers and don't they contribute to the economy and overall good of society by working and spending their money? Citizenship is a somewhat archaic concept IMHO...

 

[ruffrecords]

I wonder if there may be gender issues with the next census. In the UK at the moment there is a lot going on about people of one gender wanting to 'identify' as the other gender. There is a story about a bunch of squaddies and their captain who went to a local club. The bouncer on the door would not let them in because they said it was policy not to let large bodies of men in because they cause too much trouble. One bright squaddie piped up that as a male identifying as a female he found the bouncer's remarks offensive. The bouncer backed down and let them in.

The world has gone mad.

A few years ago I read a novel about Europe in the future where, due to idiotic anti- discrimination legislation, people were allowed to do jobs for which they totally unqualified. The novel was hilarious but I thought it was a little far fetched. Maybe it wasn't.

Cheers

Ian

 

[abbey road d enfer]

A few years ago I read a novel about Europe in the future where, due to idiotic anti- discrimination legislation, people were allowed to do jobs for which they totally unqualified. The novel was hilarious but I thought it was a little far fetched. Maybe it wasn't.

You may have noticed that, in the name of gender equality, some administrations here have implemented a plan that would see an equal number of men and women in their managerial staff; that is referred to as "quota" here.
We already have a good example of quota, with the obligation for radio stations to program as many French artists as foreign; as a result, we have seen the arrival of lousy "artists" whose sole qualification is to be "French".

 

[emrr]

I don't recall, if you skip questions on the US census does it invalidate the whole form?  I'm tempted to skip that question if it does not. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

Are they not taxpayers and don't they contribute to the economy and overall good of society by working and spending their money? Citizenship is a somewhat archaic concept IMHO...

This is likely to be another wedge issue for midterm elections.

Paying taxes does not magically make an illegal immigrant who broke law(s) to come/stay here, a legal resident. While the constitutional protections apply to everybody here (IIRC from recent court decisions), that doesn't mean they all get full benefits of citizenship.

This is a contentious issue with different entrenched interests on both sides of the aisle. One side wants cheap labor, the other new voters, while illegal immigrants can't vote legally either so that strategy requires yet another amnesty, which is how we got here in the first place.  We have a bad habit of passing immigration reform then failing to enforce the new laws, so another group comes in illegally waiting for the next amnesty.

I do not believe citizenship is archaic while some globalists may think it already is. IMO a country also needs borders and immigration control, or it isn't a nation. Time will tell if Merkel's charitable invitation of (1 Million?) middle east migrants pays off.  German factories can use the cheap labor, but not everybody in Germany appreciates the change. The British Brexit vote seems like its immersed in immigration concerns. I won't arrogantly lecture our Brit and German forum members about their countries (any more than I already have).  I know how much it irritates me.  :

I have written about US immigration reform here for years, and don't see the swamp (both parties) showing any interest in solving it anytime soon.  If politicians actually fixed major problems, they wouldn't have anything to campaign about in future elections.

JR

 

[ombudsman]

This is likely to be another wedge issue for midterm elections.

It is, of course, manufactured on schedule for exactly that purpose.

 

[JohnRoberts]

It is, of course, manufactured on schedule for exactly that purpose.

It didn't take much manufacturing. Citizenship (or birthplace) was asked on long form census questionnaires since 1970... in 1950 all census takers were asked, in 2010 none were asked (no long form census).

The failure to deal with this huge elephant in the room (illegal immigration) for decades is just one of several embarrassments foist upon the country by the swamp dwellers in DC.

Poking this hornet's nest by our non-politician POTUS may move us closer to a solution.... or not. At least it makes it harder to ignore. It seems a thoughtful inspection into how much taxpayer funded entitlement benefits we allocate to non-citizens should occur, and a decision voted on by congress.

If they want to treat them like citizens go ahead and amnesty them (again), otherwise solve this unresolved mess.  Stop kicking it down the road, for others to deal with.

JR