CHASING THE GAIN REDUCTION DREAM

[Gavin Pursinger]

After completing and using my Federal am864 and my single ended 6L7/6L6 vari mu comps..I am curious what STUDIOS IN LA were using for vocal comps that pre dated the LA2 & LA2a. Vocals like Bobby Vinton's She Wore Blue Velvet and Nashvilles Patsy Cline's She's Got You..and Andy William's Christmas song recordings etc are SO liquid and smooth and warm. I WANT THAT SOUND.I know the mics and room acoustics are a big part of it...I have some nice tube front end and mics.
WHAT WERE THEY USING ?
ANYONE KNOW. (NOT THE ALTEC 436/RS 124s STYLE COMPS THE BRITS WERE USING.

 

[Michael Tibes]

I do not know anything about these recordings, but googling led me to the LA-1: A History of the Teletronix LA-2A Leveling Amplifier | Universal Audio
Even if noone knows about these sessions, a timeline of the recording dates and the commercially available compressors at that time might help to draw conclusions. There really weren't many choices, unless they used diy-equipment. Another interesting question might be how they recorded (mics / placement / chain / tapes etc)... Consider multiple generations of tape with tube amplifiers, probably used with relative high levels. There might have been a lot more elements to the sound than just the compressor.

 

[rock soderstrom]

There might have been a lot more elements to the sound than just the compressor.

+1

 

[Gavin Pursinger]

I traced some facts down on the web
Both Patsy Cline and Vintons Blue Velvet were recorded at Owen Bradley's studio in Nashville. They used 251s and 49s and rca44 & 77s...sounds like vocals were 251. Bradley had some connection toChet Atkins and RCA...So possibly comps were BA6A...THEY Had a tube console then. STELLAR VOCAL RCORDING. THX
MICHAEL AND ROCK FOR YOUR REPLIES...

 

[Michael Tibes]

The BA6A Manual looks like diy instructions, including the wiring: BA6A

Just to put things into perspective: when did these recordings take place?

 

[Gavin Pursinger]

1962 or 1963 ... could have an early LA Series optical or maybe a 176...I guess ? They just caught my ear off the FM radio while I was building my 864...which sounds great but it is a has a bit more edge to it than these songs have

 

[amplexus]

BA6A is a good guess- I say that having serviced a pair of them extensively over the past few years and I'm pretty familiar with their sound. "Liquid" is about right. Even if it wasn't the actual unit used, it sure would give you the vibe!

$$$ to build tho. Not 670 money, but definitely going to be on the pricey side of a project.

 

[Gavin Pursinger]

Thx...I have looked at the schematic...same basic front end as an 864...cap coupled to
'driver' octals and interstaged to
PP 6V6s...regulated gr voltage.
Could blow meters out a device if cranked...probably runs very clean if your not trying to send the receiving unit to the happy hunting ground
THANK FOR YOUR INTERST ON THIS

 

[Script]

Wondering what set of 'ears' they used...

 

[Dylan W]

GE BA-9 apparently.

https://gearspace.com/board/so-much...0s-stereomix-bus-compressor.html#post13516519
Doubt there would have been many generations of tape, the bouncing overdubs/close miking/heavy limiting thing didn't happen much until the mid 60s

The pres were apparently Langevin 5116 (the single-ended ones, not the push pull 5116B)

https://gearspace.com/board/so-much...588-jim-reeves-vocal-chain-2.html#post6981285
Don't forget the most important ingredients, a great arrangement, great musicians, a talented singer with great mic technique, and a great room.

 

[shot]

People seem to forget that in those days tape recorders played important role in sound of the recording! Skilled technicians knew how to bias them differently if they felt they need to push the sound in particular direction. It was not always aligned for flat response! And tape also added some dynamic curve that complemented compressor's.
I went to a friend's studio to listen to his collection of tape recorders. It's amazing how instantly you get that "old" sound with them. Multitrack Studer or Telefunken for tracking and J37 as a master recorder and baaaam that's it. Actually you don't need compressors for that type of recording as much as we think/need now.

 

[thomasdf]

Making records back then was real craftmanship, and great care was taken about playing together, fixing the sound in the room, not overloading mic capsules, capturing air and musicians controlling the dynamics ... let alone custom and finetuned equipment... so lots and lots of aspects and techniques some unfortunately lost forever

That being said, the GE BA9 is a sweet compressor and it's almost a STA Level with fixed controls ... so you can give it a try 6386 tube is something ...

 

[Gavin Pursinger]

Wow...thx everybody...nice to know the dream lives in others too. I had never heard of GE BA9...I'll research it...I have a decent collection of mics and tube front end. STILL LOOKING FOR LIQUID GOLD ;-). I should buy time in a no budget restriction studio just to hear some of the original major league pieces in person...might be worth the bux

 

[Michael Tibes]

Skilled technicians knew how to bias them differently if they felt they need to push the sound in particular direction. It was not always aligned for flat response!

My understanding of biasing is that it is optimising for lowest distortion. It does influence the frequency response, but it should not be used for that! There are EQs for that purpose - actually built into the machine ;-) If I remember correctly the optimal bias point is also depending on the head. It was published in the tape's documentation. If you find one of these you'll find some interesting curves showing the effect of bias.

I once recorded in a studio where the 'technician' had 'optimised' the frequency response of the 24 track Otari by finetuning the bias. It sounded horrible, lifeless, choked, I have no technical words for it. It took me some days to get behind that and have the machine aligned properly.

Thinking about it, if you were using an old tube electronics tape machine from that period with original tapes (if they even still exist) then that might have a far bigger effect than the type of compressor. I assume that the old tape formulas were quite different, noisier and had less headroom than the latest generations.

Thinking further I remember a pop production with a female german singer to which I had rented out my half inch. The vocal sound coming out of the SSL wasn't entirely pleasing, but recording the mix to tape made a huge difference. I should go and check that machine...

 

[Gavin Pursinger]

Thx...I have an Ampex AG 440B that was converted to 1/2"@ 30ips...I did not change the bias but eqd the machine to print 10khz 2db hotter than +4 @ 1k.
I preferred 456 over 499 and definitely over gp9. After a week or so the tails out tape settled down to have a nice shine. I also have a Scully 280
(not a B) 1/4"@ 15...left that one normally setup to flat. I had ad 288 16tk @ 30ips that I did the +2db rec hot for the tracks that were sn, hat, OHs and lead vox (I plugged my akg 'the tube' straight into the line in of that vox channel) I used 3m 250 as long as I could get it then 996. Dan Aurbach from Black Keys bought the old A&M deck from me...I miss it cause it was 900 lbs of cool utc