Cheap coil winder

[CJ]

40 lbs Lord have Mercy! 


we need a good paper cutter,  Ian if you have any suggestions on that...

of course you do not need a fancy tape machine for mundane tasks like taping wire to the mandrels and that type of stuff, so the ol Scotch C-15 works fine, we have an artdeco model from the 50's for vintage sounding transformers,  plus they weigh more,

old wire spools can serve as de-reeler pulleys,

a straw taped to some foam can work as a shock absorber,

whisker discs are nice but you can DIY your own with some Kraft Paper wrapped around the wire spools to prevent kinks from wire dancing around,

http://azonicproducts.com/wisker.html

 

[CJ]

you will need a good pair of scissors, Klein Tools 2100-7 scissors are awesome, you can even cut #21 AWG and they do not care.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Klein-Tools-2100-7-Electrician-Scissors-w-Stripping-Notch-Silver-NEW/401300016200?epid=2254346038&hash=item5d6f584c48:gLQAAMXQVhFSCRE~

and you need nuts and bolts to hold everything together, this place is cheap>

http://stores.ebay.com/Lexar-Industrial/Fasteners-Hardware-/_i.html?_fsub=7672279&_sid=5529851&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

throw in a toaster oven and a can of spar varnish and maybe some #18 to #22 PVC wire and you are ready to roll,

 

[Tubetec]

Coil winders arrived ,
Very good value at the price ,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/990723A-Hand-Dual-Number-winding-machine-Winder-Guitar-Coil-UK-VAT/282054552715?epid=1972365062&hash=item41abc2ec8b:g:VIQAAOSw-3FZAbPG

I added an extra washer to the clock work counter ,this makes it run a bit smoother ,at any rate I'll rig up a modded calculator and microswitch or magnet reed to count the turns on these units .

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/casio-hs-8ver-calculator-with-euro-conversion-uc18u
This calculator fits the space in the frame perfectly, a small block of timber might be needed to mount it.

No bearings anywhere on the unit ,the shafts just run through the cast iron body ,looks like it mightent be to difficult to add some though  .Seems like a  chuck ,gearbox and motor repurposed from an old variable speed cordless drill would be an easy  job to fit to the main shaft too. Add a motorised fader ,a H bridge from an rc servo and a microcontroller and bang you have an automated winder for well less than the cost of a night out on the town .I'll post more details and photos as the project progresses.

By the way the same place I got the winder also has a neat looking microcontrolled tape dispenser,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312052A-Automatic-Micro-Computer-Tape-Feeder-Dispenser-Machine-UK-Seller-inc-VAT/281820727963?hash=item419dd30a9b:g:kDUAAOSwRXRZRrvh

'I love it when a plan comes together'

 

[PRR]

> No bearings anywhere on the unit

It's got oil-holes big enough to put a cockroach through. Oil them every morning when you punch-in, there is NO way hand-winding will ever wear-out this bearing. If you must motorize, oil every time you start a coil, it still will last far longer than the 20 bucks you paid.

A substantial amount of the lower-price stuff we buy must get wound on machines just like this. It is obviously low-end junk, and long-term a smart factory would use it only to make the money to buy a smoother-journaled machine with more frills. But that's 5000-20000 coils. In DIY you will never get near that total production.

 

[Gene Pink]

It's got oil-holes big enough to put a cockroach through.

Looks like there was a cost-cutting measure along the way, the grease fittings, or wicked oil cups didn't make it to the final version. I'll bet those holes are tap drill size for some tiny tapered pipe thread.

Gene

 

[PRR]

You may be right; but the tip of sewing-machine oil can will go right in without fumbling. I bet a lot of manufacturing gets done on-the-crude.

 

[Tubetec]

;D
Ahahah Prr,your a man of few words ,but always hit the nail on the head .

Hi Gene ,
Did you get the rodents under control yet ?


Nah, no threads in the cockroach holes  ,trying to tap pig iron is a waste of time either way.The units came slathered in some kind of funky goo ,barely even petroleum based ,judging by the nose off it ,vaguely mamailian ,'whale oil beef hooked'  ,say that fast .
The cogs and gears are the best bit ,theres no oil/grease viscous enough to take up the slop in the bearing surfaces (appart from running it in a tub of luke warm lard ).
Theres kind of a low growl  when the gears are in motion , no pile of iron filings yet ,but under load may well reveal another story.
These yokes are like a bad knock off of a design thats dates back about 150 years  ,but its still very much adequate to get to know the ropes or magnet wires in this case .I have four generations of watch and clock makers ahead of me so I'll tinker around with it and see how I go.
Thanks for the replies,happy holidays.I might venture over the brewery and see whats happening

 

[Gene Pink]

Hi Gene ,
Did you get the rodents under control yet ?

No sign of any in the garage or shed, trap bait untouched.

I did buy a flute.

Nah, no threads in the cockroach holes  ,trying to tap pig iron is a waste of time either way.

Not sure why you would say that. No chips, just crumbles into a fine black dust in a satisfying way. It is harder to hold square as the tap doesn't follow it's own threads well.

You could gently stuff a wad of burlap in the holes and keep it wet for a longer term oil supply, and also keep dirt out.

The units came slathered in some kind of funky goo ,barely even petroleum based ,judging by the nose off it ,vaguely mamailian ,'whale oil beef hooked'  ,say that fast .

A rust preventative, somewhere between grease and tar, sometimes paraffin based, since the thing likely came on the slow boat from China, literally. Months of exposure to salt air can rust up things badly. Probably smells like the ocean, those cargo container doors don't seal well.

.I have four generations of watch and clock makers ahead of me so I'll tinker around with it and see how I go.

Good idea, as I'm sure you can tweak it to a higher quality than the way it was slapped together at the factory.

Shim washers are your friends.

Gene

 

[Tubetec]

Thanks for the tips guys,
Ive never tried tapping cast iron ,Id always assumed the grainy texture of it wouldnt lend itself well to it ,handy to know though .
I might try mounting bearings in small blocks of mahogany and epoxy them in place on the inside edges of the existing supports for the main winding shaft .

 

[Tubetec]

So had a chance to try out the microswitch and calculator counter idea today ,just about works at slow winding speed ,anything higher than a couple of revolutions per second and theres so much bounce off the switch contacts it becomes unreliable .
Tried a magnetic reed switch , a lot better and capable of faster counts ,but still no where near good enough . I'm guessing theres going to be a limit to the rate of clicks the the calculator can handle per second ,but I think for now the mecahnical nature of the switch seems to be the limiting factor . Next thing is to try out an optical sensor with a led light source( A scrapped VHS player is a good source for these) and a rotating disk with a slot on the shaft. Ive never implemented one of these before so its back to the books for now.
If anyone knows a simple way to integrate a photodiodes output to the wires of the = button on the calculator any help would be greatly appriciated .Of course I now need a battery to power my light source ,but Im wondering if the photo diode will go in directly in  place of the switch or do I need extra circuity .

 

[Tubetec]

Well ,
Photo diode correctly polarised and connected across the calculator '=' switch  contacts works perfectly ,So next step is the fun part ,a tube with the light source at one end, photo detector at the other ,a slot in the middle and a disk mounted on the shaft with one or more gaps. The higher the input rate the calculator can handle means I can program it to add .5 for two slots .25 for four or maybe even .1 for ten ,hopefully in the end this pulsed output can be used can be used to clock the PWM for the traverse mechanism too.

 

[Gene Pink]

So had a chance to try out the microswitch and calculator counter idea today ,just about works at slow winding speed ,anything higher than a couple of revolutions per second and theres so much bounce off the switch contacts it becomes unreliable .
Tried a magnetic reed switch , a lot better and capable of faster counts ,but still no where near good enough . I'm guessing theres going to be a limit to the rate of clicks the the calculator can handle per second ,but I think for now the mecahnical nature of the switch seems to be the limiting factor . Next thing is to try out an optical sensor with a led light source( A scrapped VHS player is a good source for these) and a rotating disk with a slot on the shaft. Ive never implemented one of these before so its back to the books for now.
If anyone knows a simple way to integrate a photodiodes output to the wires of the = button on the calculator any help would be greatly appriciated .Of course I now need a battery to power my light source ,but Im wondering if the photo diode will go in directly in  place of the switch or do I need extra circuity .

If you want to put a tachometer on a diesel motor, there is no distributor to connect it to. It is done by putting a piece of reflective tape on the front balancer, and mounting a LED/phototransistor to see it come around. A ready made solution to get pulses, but like your other solutions, it won't count down if you back it up for some reason.

I doubt any common calculator can keep up with the counts if you get to cranking fast with that gearing, I believe the keys are polled, may be awhile before it gets around to checking the (=) key, and miss something. I have seen bar bouncers at the door with slow thumbs do this trick, with a calculator in each hand. One for incoming patrons, one for exiting. If the fire marshall shows up checking, just subtract for current occupancy. Just something that impressed me as clever.

Do you by chance have a frequency counter? They usually have a feature for directly counting, on my Fluke 1912A, it is called "total". And you won't outcrank 125Mhz bandwidth. 

Just some ideas, hope they help.

Gene

 

[user 37518]

I just bought one of the cheap winders, I'll report back once I get it.

 

[Tubetec]

Hi Gene,Hi Dual
Oh yes I get what your saying , if you unwind a turn the pulse from the photo diode still  counts as plus 1.
I do have a frequency counter but its a really basic 'Sinclair' almost identical to the pic below :-[
The other annoying thing about most modern calculators is the auto off ,so a pen and paper is needed just in case .
Hopefully tomorrow I'll have a chance to rig up the led /photo diode properly and check if the calculator will work or not , even just one pulse per revolution would  adequate for the turns count .

Just to get an idea of the numbers, a ten toothed cog ,8:1 turns ratio lets just say 3 handle rotations per second =240hz ,a bit optimistic for a 1.50 euro pocket calculator alright  ;D
Single pulse per rotation =24hz ,might work-ish
Maybe what I need I need is a super vintage calculator with vacuum flourescent display and through hole components(to go with my Sinclair Freq meter)and then figure out how to over clock it 
Its all a bit of a learning curve for me ,Ill get there in the end .
Thanks again.

 

[CJ]

turns count is very important to most winders, you must be able to trust your counter, it will become your  best friend if it works. 

ebay  keyword: veederRoot

 

[gyraf]

Keyword: Counting relay. Energizes relay when the preset count is reached.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DH48J-8-8-pin-AC-DC-24V-contact-signal-input-digital-counter-relay-DH48J-series-24VAC/32782498927.html

Description: http://att.finglai.com/comp/fl-en/relay/counter/DH48J_en.pdf

I use one similar (though mechanical) for winding purposes..

Jakob E.

 

[Tubetec]

Hi Cj and Jacob ,
Two excellent solutions there ,one mechanical ,one electronic ,each with its own pro's and cons , I think its definately time to abandon the calculator idea now . :
I do like the simplicity of the mechanical counter ,no batteries or electronics to worry about .
On the other hand those cheap knock offs of the omron  Plc counters look great to,I especially like the idea of being able to punch in the number or turns ,hit the reset switch and off she goes ,then automatically cuts the motor when the winding is done ,seeing as I'll be adding an opto to the main shaft I might try out the electronic counter first.

That looks like a small starter motor you used on your winder Cj  ,I guess it consumes way less amps than under normal usage though because the load is fairly small in comparison to cranking cylinders. For now I'l probably stick with a motor, gearbox, chuck and trigger style speed control from a cordless drill ,but I certainly will keep the 'Go big' approach in mind for down the line .

I've got a couple of motorised Penny and giles linear taper faders on the way too ,and I found a large dual H bridge driver for pocket change too . I'll have to study up a bit on the microcontroller side of things a bit next .

Thank you all once again.

 

[Tubetec]

The bits for my project are slowly trickling in from China,
just to give a rough idea of what Im doing see pic below ,
I'll keep the main winding mechanism hand cranked for now ,it doesnt take long to do even a few thousand turns , I got a ballscrew/nut cheap ,its over kill but for this particular job ,but theres no back lash which should make things nice and precise,I hope the motor is up to the job it looks a little wimpy next to the big bad screw mech. I need to run an encoder off the main shaft on the winder,then hopefully I can use a waveform generator with a mod/vco input to sync the encoder to a pwm signal that drives the motor via a controler plc.I had been hoping to make a closed loop servo on the stepper ,but the controller I have is only the basic type,my guess is its good enough without the locked loop in any case .

comments or suggestions all welcome ,