DIY Phase Meter?

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bradb said:
has anyone built and tested the intersil schematic?

It's ongoing here, haven't found the time to complete it yet.

Note for 'just L/R-use' you could skip a separate package for IC2 and use one of the sections from IC1 for it, since most likely L & R will have about the same amplitude.
You'll also want to use both bal or unbal input arrangements then.

You might even skip the range-switching. H*ck, try to skip IC1 & IC2 altogether, the sensitivity of the comparator-section is a few mV (see the patent I linked to above).

Further simplifications/adaptations/replacements can obviously be made, depending on the easy you can get the various parts.

IC4 will likely be a CA3130/3140 here.

Regards,

  Peter
 
Yes, keep us posted!  :)


Meantime, I've found that also this "correlator"
[from 169-269 mini console's Studer service manual, this is page 213, previous pages have a well explained description of the circuit]
is made of economical and easy to find components [there is also, on page 212, a PCB layout],
except maybe for the two 1:1 trafos, but I think its not bad to have the inputs transformer-coupled.



 
clintrubber said:
Interesting to hear about the Edison. Curious, how do you know its reading is inaccurate?
What are you using as your 'trusted reference' ?

The two Edisons I have show different readings, indeed does give me that the feeling that they're
then most likely both off, but IIRC there's an internal adjustment, maybe it's just a matter
of calibration.

Hi,

how do I know its reading is inaccurate? Well, let's say I don't really know whether its accurate  :)

I noticed that, when my unit is in idle mode (meaning there is no audio going into it and no cables are connected), the phase meter sometimes wanders off the center, lighting up the first green or first red LED ??? Same problem if cables are connected. Unfortunately, this looks like a more fundamental problem than just calibaration. There are "only" five red LEDs to tell me when audio is not mono-compatible, so I consider this offset to be severe.

Anyway, I quickly fiddled around with the trim pot while sending sine waves at different freqs and at near unity gain into it. I wasn't really keen on looking into the circuitry more deeply at that time, so I didn't even bother measuring the associated meter circuitry. The gist of it: my unit calls for more attention; meaning, more time  :)

My opinion about the Edison:
- PHASE METER: Provided the unit is otherwise OK (unlike mine, apparently), I guess anyone looking for a cheap phase meter that gives a rough idea of how mono or stereo a signal is, could use the Edison. That's why I picked it up in the first place -- and it was darn cheap. Personally, however, I don't rely on its readings as my only source when mixed down tracks. Plug-ins, I agree, can provide the same. My time-tested approach to mono-compatibility checking: first I look at some meters and then switch audio output to mono to hear what's really happening.
- EFFECT: The funny thing about the Edison is that it uses 1% precision resistors thoughout (this is the old version made in Germany with screws holding the face plate), but there are no trim pots for calibration in the MS domain, hmm. Common mode rejection too is all but fantastic. So I wouldn't use my unit of the Edison for anyhing supposed to be (pre-)mastering -- I tried twice, but didn't like the shifts in the stereo image. (This might be a matter of taste, and/or because there's something wrong in my unit). Yet, remembering that the idea of the Edison is to "mess around" with the stereo image (spread, LMF, balance, distance), it can produce interesting results in mixing as an effects unit on individual intruments. That's what I use it for and that's where I don't really care too much about it being accurate or not ;) And, yes, if I see a synth pad, for instance, lighting up too many red LEDs on the Edison, I am inclined to tweak the sound (on the synth first and then, if still necessary, on the Edison).


 
clintrubber said:
It's ongoing here, haven't found the time to complete it yet.

Hi again,

this Intersil thing sounds interesting. Not too complicated to build, I seems. Have you finished yours already? I had contacted Intersil two months ago and they were kind enough to send me some samples of the required ICs, but I have had no time to start on the layout yet. I still have to order some parts, and there are more important things in life than phase meters  :). But what would be a good meter display for this one? Any recommendations?

Cheers,

Script
 
1954U1 said:
Yes, keep us posted!  :)
is made of economical and easy to find components [there is also, on page 212, a PCB layout],
except maybe for the two 1:1 trafos, but I think its not bad to have the inputs transformer-coupled.

Hello 1954-
there is a PCB??? can you scan it or at least link to the manual you are talking about.

I have something here that isn't working correctly. troubleshooting it is pretty low on my list, but knocking together this studer seems easy enough, I even have an mc1496.
Thanks
Sleeper
 
Sleeper said:
1954U1 said:
Yes, keep us posted!  :)
is made of economical and easy to find components [there is also, on page 212, a PCB layout],
except maybe for the two 1:1 trafos, but I think its not bad to have the inputs transformer-coupled.

Hello 1954-
there is a PCB??? can you scan it or at least link to the manual you are talking about.

I have something here that isn't working correctly. troubleshooting it is pretty low on my list, but knocking together this studer seems easy enough, I even have an mc1496.
Thanks
Sleeper


ftp://ftp.studer.ch/Public/Products/Mixing_Analog/169-269/Manuals/169-269_Op_Serv.pdf
Section 7.13
from pag 209 to pag 214

There is a PCB but the image is with component layout superimposed, some work needed.
 
I'm interested in the studer circuit.

I've an old centered  0.5mA moving coil meter that might work.
 
I found a few phase meters in storage... I think I have four of them. They're SIFAM center-zero, white pointer on black background...

No driver circuit, but maybe it could be the catalyst to having someone build a phase meter circuit...?
 
SSLtech said:
I found a few phase meters in storage... I think I have four of them. They're SIFAM center-zero, white pointer on black background...

No driver circuit, but maybe it could be the catalyst to having someone build a phase meter circuit...?

totally agree :)
has anyone tried to knock off a PCB yet ? i'd be interested in one.
Keith, if you have a spare sifam meter laying around then i'd love to buy one from you :)
best regards
jon
 
yan_b said:
i mean 0 and small degrees shifts are  not presented on the bargraph .
hi there,
it's my first post, so I hope to enjoy this group.
I did the franck's phase meter and I have exactelly the same problem as you yan_b.
I calibrate the -1 and 0, with wavelab with a sinus at 1khz at 0dBvu 1,23v and
I notice that the first green LED start to works when there is a difference between L and R
of 0,045ms (1s/44.1khz) 2 samples. I was wondering whether someone there had solve this problem and
can help us to fix it. otherwise everything works fine, approximativelly with 9vvc battery it works about 60 hours :).
The funny thing is that I listen my favorite radio station throught out internet (resonance fm from south east london) and some of theirs programs (Musique concrete) are proportionnaly out of phase, doesn't matter this radio station is wicked...
thanks for your reply
best regards
sylxx
 

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Here's how they did it in the Neumann u79t. It drives a 100-0-100 uA meter.
Clipping, sum/difference, ring multiplier, integrator.

Cheers,
Michael
 

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Here's the actual unit and meter. meter centered corresponds to L and R in-phase
 

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mjk said:
meter centered corresponds to L and R in-phase
Sorry if I´m wrong but center position of the needle shows "0" while the right end of the scale shows "+1" which means zero degrees or in other words totally in phase or full correlation.
Normally "0" means a phase offset of 90 degrees,"-1" is 180 degrees off then,no?

Best regards,

Udo.
 
kante1603 said:
mjk said:
meter centered corresponds to L and R in-phase
Sorry if I´m wrong but center position of the needle shows "0" while the right end of the scale shows "+1" which means zero degrees or in other words totally in phase or full correlation.
Normally "0" means a phase offset of 90 degrees,"-1" is 180 degrees off then,no?
Best regards,
Udo.

hi,
-1  0  +1 cos
180  90  0  °
 
Hi there,
I have a question for the kings of the solder ;)
my question is: on the franck schematic circuit for the phase meter, I was wondering
exactelly why there's a 47mf capacitor between the ground and the +5 15v to close the circuit?
why the value is 47microfarad? and secondely does someone there got some info about the franck's schematic?
I means, where and when does this schematic come from? any idea?
thx a lot
sylxx
 
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