DIY XLR/TRS cable, best bang for buck/performance?

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DaveMTL

New member
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
2
Location
Montreal
Hi,

I'm looking to invest in a spool of audio cable (balanced, two conductors), and am wondering if anyone has experience building their own, where to buy, what to look out for. I live in Canada, so preferably an online distributor from here, or the USA.

I need a moderate amount of shielding as I live in a city, as well as durability; these will not be sitting stationary inside of a studio.

Any help is much appreciated!

Cheers,

Dave
 
for ease of assembly go with neutrik xlr and 1/4 connectors. I have used others but by far the easiest to assemble and or do repair on if needed. Yeah they might cost more then others but totally worth it, other worth it are amphenol xlr's as they assemble in a similar fashion to neutrik.

As far as wire, if you're really looking to have maximum shielding go with quad cable and braided shield canare quad is my personal fave for wiring. It sounds good, offers maximum shielding, is duel twisted pair per conductor which IMO improves bass response and if I had my say so I would wire with that exclusively but I don't always get to that.
 
I think Pucho is referring to the Canare L-4E6S.  Great cable!  Costs a bit less than Mogami as well.  It is slightly harder to work with due to the braided shield, but you won't regret using it.
 
+1 for canare and neutrick just cant go wrong. neutrick has an off brand called RANE REAN. vastly cheaper, but their TRS's can be okay, nothing special.
 
rean not rane
+1 on what pucho said
neutrik offer a range of connectors now, some made in china--feel cheap--not as good as the old 'made in lichtenstein' neutrik

starquad canare is nice and durable
 
usekgb said:
I think Pucho is referring to the Canare L-4E6S.  Great cable!  Costs a bit less than Mogami as well.  It is slightly harder to work with due to the braided shield, but you won't regret using it.

yes that is the part number I was referring too.
 
As for the bulk cable part, it takes big expensive machines and a good Quality Control department to make close tolerance balanced cable.
So stick with the major manufactures, like:

Belden
Canare
Gepco
Mogami
 
Hi Dave,
  You can get balanced digiflex from addison for 45cents a foot. If you order from the states make sure you add the price of shipping to your per foot calculations...other wise you're in for a deception!
  I bought some belden myself but it is smaller gauge good for studio hookup. They was a mistake on mouser's website and they forgot to charge me extra for bulkier item, so shipping was free for a 1000 feet spool!

Regards,

Pierre
 
shabtek said:
rean not rane
+1 on what pucho said
neutrik offer a range of connectors now, some made in china--feel cheap--not as good as the old 'made in lichtenstein' neutrik

starquad canare is nice and durable

ahh thanks for the correction! been a while since i ordered them ::)
 
I always wondered .....what are the advantages you guys see in going with Xlr over TRS  for non professional applications ?
despite the lack of locking system, I see no real reason to choose XLR over TRS for my own units. TRS connectors allow me to spare room on faceplates, are cheaper and seem to have same connection quality (maybe i'm a little wrong on that point since connection is through a smaller surface for TRS)  maybe I'm missing something  :D...
 
Mzaar said:
maybe I'm missing something  :D...

One often-overlooked feature of XLR connectors is that the pin 1 connection makes first, so that will minimize "pop"s when you plug and unpl,ug (unless phantom power is on, of course.)
 
From my own experience I think there are a few things to look at when choosing cables:

1) Don't put phantom power through TRS plugs.  +48V will hit the ground when you plug in, and anything metal they touch.

2) I recommend against putting phantom power through TRS Jacks as well - it connects and disconnects in an odd order (tip to ring, then ring to ring and tip to tip) and turns on and off twice as you make the connection (and it is always stabilized by a good sized cap so you get big pops).  Furthermore the other end of the cable become a hot connection (often TRS).  Furthermore if you plug a TS connector in it you short the Phantom Power out to ground with various results none great.

3) Phantom power belongs on XLR only (or various multipin... DSUB25, etc) in my opinion.

4) When choosing cables there are several thing to consider depending upon how you are going to use it.

a) On stage cable, short runs you should be concerned about handling noise (how much noise bending the cablea), surface texture of cable, how easy it is to untangle (a combination of flexibility, diameter and surface), durability  on longer runs capacitance between shield and conductor and between conductor and conductor. Shielding can matter.

b) Mobile cables stage and other for long runs. Same as above but tangling matters less  Capacitance can matter more.  Shielding can matter more.

c) Fixed cables - dont worry about flexibility surface texture tangling etc.  Shielding matters.

That said:

There are 3 general types of shields:
- braided shields - Very high percentage of coverage, tend to be flexible and durable and bending the cable doesn't displace the shield, but they are harder to solder because unbraiding can be hard.
- wound spiral shield (called served shield) these can be a single layer or two counter-wound layers.  Also can have low handling noise but shield can be displaced with use (bend it and there is a gap) and cheap served cable has low % coverage etc.
- foil shield - very high percentage coverage 100% but very fragile when bending and flexing, fixed installations only - generally a "drain" cable makes the shield electrically intact.  Easy to strip and solder, easy to route (stays put, thin outside dimensions, stiff).

There are two general conductor arrangements for single cables - twisted pair and star-quad (aka quad wound).  The quad arrangement is good for running cable across wall warts, SMPS PSU's and transformers (close proximity noise sources).  This is because the arrangement makes sure that a nearby source is relatively evenly balanced between the two pairs of conductors (go to the mogami or canari site to see why , they explain it well). 

The downside of quad cables it that the capacitance is higher between conductors and between conductor and shield.  This capacitance in combination with the impedance of the overall connection is a high pass filter.... (so star quad cable makes are really really bad long guitar cable).  Long runs can get you into trouble with line level cables too, and to a lesser extent with mic cables (problem is less significant at lower impedances).


So the "Dummies" version is like this:

For non fixed cables - If you are working in uncontrolled environments where you might drag it across noise sources... then use Quad cable for everything, except for long runs which should be twisted pair with a braided shield.

Add to that:

For mic cables to be used on stage, be really concerned with 1) handling noise, 2) flexibility, 3) surface texture (Canare makes REALLY smooth cable, beautiful stuff really) 4) tangling, and Durability (if you are Roger Daltry)

For line level cables running around stage 1) surface texture, tangling and durability. - handling noise not an issue, nor is flexibility really.  I try not to use quad cable for this because the impedance is higher on those connections.

For fixed cables use foil shield cable, cheaper and easier to connect.  Available in Quad if you want to run it near noise sources, but usually you are in control of the runs for fixed cables.

For any mic cable to be handled, use low handling noise cable (sometimes in flexible mounts it is nice to use very thin (like lavolier cable) low handling noise cables to connect to the mount especially if you expect there to be mic stand motion, I have little extension cables for that purpose).

Lastly

there is nothing worse than living with cables that you don't like the way they feel.  I have some "live wire" brand mic cables that have a rough texture, tangle like crazy, get dirt on them, and feel bad, and can't be dragged out of a pile without sticking to everything.  I usually try to cut them up and use them in the lab and for short patch cables etc.

Really nice cable is a pleasure to lay out and pick up (hint... on power line reels from Home Depot, the orange ones).

And last but not least... You will want to shoot yourself if you use a cable with handling noise on a nice mic in a recording and it moves and makes that creaking noise... ruins the whole thing.  This is particularly easy to do on handheld mics and on condensers in flexible shock mounts in a situation where there is a lot of foot tapping or mic stand motion.


fullcompass.com has some good deals on canare cable, you can often get a deal (especially if you don't care about color).

canare and mogami make great cable, canare cable has a nicer surface.

And if it is not obvious XLR cables don't connect shield to the shell in the cable, just to pin 1.

Canare and Mogami have good spec's on their sites... once you know what (part number) you want EBAY can be a good place to find excess spools.

Belden also spec's cable completely and makes a high quality product but they make SO MANY TYPES that going through the spec's makes me want to shoot myself.

Don't know Gepco...

 

   
 
bruce0 said:
From my own experience I think there are a few things to look at when choosing cables:

1) Don't put phantom power through TRS plugs.  +48V will hit the ground when you plug in, and anything metal they touch.

2) I recommend against putting phantom power through TRS Jacks as well - it connects and disconnects in an odd order (tip to ring, then ring to ring and tip to tip) and turns on and off twice as you make the connection (and it is always stabilized by a good sized cap so you get big pops).  Furthermore the other end of the cable become a hot connection (often TRS).  Furthermore if you plug a TS connector in it you short the Phantom Power out to ground with various results none great.

3) Phantom power belongs on XLR only (or various multipin... DSUB25, etc) in my opinion.

this. +1


the shorting of phantom to ground has always scared me. I dont hot swap anyway but i know of some people that do....
 
berkleystudios said:
the shorting of phantom to ground has always scared me. I dont hot swap anyway but i know of some people that do....

Mostly no damage is done to the equipment supplying phantom power (usually it has a 6.8K resistor feeding the power), but it can make a nice spark depending upon design, and ruin a spot of plating on the connector, and scare the heck out of you.  More likely damage is that usually only one of the two balanced conductors gets shorted at a time, and for that time two interesting things happen:  1) your +4dB signal gets 48V added to it, which makes one hell of a pop, and depending upon input filtering and design of the stage it is connected to it can overload the maximum ratings of various components and cause permanent damage.  The pop can blow speakers, damage ears in headphones, etc.

Often in well designed equipment.. when speakers and cans are muted... nothing breaks at all...

 
The only major problem I have seen with phantom on a TT or 1/4 patchbay is when people are dumb enough to patch around with the phantom on. More specific patching around with the ribbon mic in that manor, it shorts one side to ground and causes the ribbon to flex or in some cases pop. At minimum it stretches the ribbon and causes it to loose proper tension.
 
bruce0 said:
berkleystudios said:
the shorting of phantom to ground has always scared me. I dont hot swap anyway but i know of some people that do....

Mostly no damage is done to the equipment supplying phantom power (usually it has a 6.8K resistor feeding the power), but it can make a nice spark depending upon design, and ruin a spot of plating on the connector, and scare the heck out of you.  More likely damage is that usually only one of the two balanced conductors gets shorted at a time, and for that time two interesting things happen:  1) your +4dB signal gets 48V added to it, which makes one hell of a pop, and depending upon input filtering and design of the stage it is connected to it can overload the maximum ratings of various components and cause permanent damage.  The pop can blow speakers, damage ears in headphones, etc.

Often in well designed equipment.. when speakers and cans are muted... nothing breaks at all...
Yes, well designed equipment sizes input clamps to handle the potential amps of current from discharging an input blocking cap charged to +48V. I would caution DIY who may be tempted to oversize those input phantom blocking caps, that more uF means more amps dumped from such transient patch bay shorting events.

THAT has a paper on their website about typical fault currents involved.

JR
 
John: 

Do you think it is ok to put phantom on TRS? 

I "never" switch anything around with phantom power on.

Never... I keep saying that word... I don't think it means what I think it means.  Here it is translated.

I whenever I forget, do unfortunately and I worry others will too someday, switch things around with phantom power on.

Bruce
 
pucho812 said:
The only major problem I have seen with phantom on a TT or 1/4 patchbay is when people are dumb enough to patch around with the phantom on. More specific patching around with the ribbon mic in that manor, it shorts one side to ground and causes the ribbon to flex or in some cases pop. At minimum it stretches the ribbon and causes it to loose proper tension.

I am forgetful enough to be called dumb enough.
bb ;D
 

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