Does anyone have/knows something about TBG Tonstudiotechnik

[Housemeister]

Hi

Someone is offering me a huge TBG Tonstudiotechnik Desk. I have not much datails jet, but i know that it is a Broadcast Mixer that was in those broadcast transmission cars ( sorry guys I dont know the right word for this. Its an Übertragungswagen/ Sendewagen on german ). I have never heard of this company before so i would like to know if someone of you have any expirience with this. What quallity should i expect. Should this be in the same range like Siemens/sitral and the other famos german broadcast stuff, or is it not god as that.
The desk seems to be in bad condition as it was storaged fo several years so i am not shure if it is worth the effort. But it is huge, something about 35-40 Ch with eq´s and preamps in all channels, and some compressors too.
What do you think, should i spend some bucks on it ? Please share some of your expirience with me.

Have a nice rest of the weekend. Best Regards: Jasmin

 

[jensenmann]

I`m right now working on the racking of two of those TBG EQs of Stefan Heinen´s Ü1 TBG board.
There´s hardly anything to find in the www about the company of TBG, but it seems that they still exist. Try to check them and find out if spareparts are still available (Relais!).
Audiopath runs on 19V says my schem. This is less than usual Rundfunktechnik stuff (=> less headroom). The modules are not in a metalchassis which gives them less RF shielding. But I don´t know if or how the frame gives shielding.
All discrete audiopath, Haufe trannies on all inputs and outputs. The EQ is inductorbased and has a good choice of frequencies in the mids and in the treble range, but isn´t any good in the LF (only 50 Hz, 100Hz, 140Hz + higher). Gain is made with switches in 2dB steps.


:sam:
Jens

 

[Housemeister]

Hallo Jens

Thanks a lot for that info. :grin: Yeah, I was searching the web but did not find anything usefull about this board, so it is good to hear that you have some schemos. Have you ever heard that eq you are racking up ? how do you like it ?
You are talking about ralais. Are they something speciall that i cant get from a usuall electronic store ? I have to say that i dont know much about ralais. Those are switches, right ? Do they get bad after some times like caps ?

Best Regards: Jasmin

 

[jensenmann]

yes, they get bad after time esp after many switching cycles.
In this case the EQ is bypassed and muted by relais. One of my bypass relais is gone. Therefore it´s good chance that it happens more often. But since I don´t need these switches I won´t replace the relais ( it´s pain in the arse to replace them, this thingy is veerryy tightly packed). I don´t know where to get them. They are RS-24V type, manufacturer is SDS Relais in Germany.
About the sound. Mids and treble sound nice and has useful frequencies, LF isn´t that good. But I checked it only with additional in/out trannies. I think I will change to less iron and use a balancing amp on the output to get a little cleaner sound in the lowend.
Jens

 

[Housemeister]

Hi Jensenmann

That means the eq works fine even with a broken relais, but it only cant be bypassed. This would not be a problem to me.
Do you have a picture of this eq. I did not seen the desk so far and it would be interessting to know if the eq´s are the same as yours.

One mor time: Thank you very much for the effort. ( Sollten wir uns mal treffen ist dir ein Weizenbier sicher :sam: )

Best Regards: Jasmin

 

[jensenmann]

You can find some pics and the schem here:
http://groupdiy.twin-x.com/thumbnails.php?album=36

You should check if the boards inserts run on -10dBm. Insertpoint is between LoPassFilter and EQ.
My measurement-tools are broken (tonegenerator and scope) so it´s hard to find out about levels, but with audio on +4 passed through my EQs they have barely any headroom and distort heavy when boosting +9dB @ 50Hz. This is no problem for you. But it´s good to know about the levels in the board before buying.
:sam:
Jens

 

[jensenmann]

:shock:
Our forum member cappy capstan owns a TBG board. I´m shure he can give you some advice.
Jens

 

[Proloton]

[quote author="Housemeister"]
What do you think, should i spend some bucks on it ? Please share some of your expirience with me.
[/quote]

Hi Jasmin,

two friends of mine own a TBG console.
The first one is a smaller type with 3 band Eq, the second is a 40/16/4 console with 4 band Eq which was taken from a mobile truck( Ü-Wagen) of the Bavarian Broadcast ( Bayrischer Runfunk).
The first console is transportable, two persons can carry it however it took my friend about 3 weeks of daily work to get the big one out of the truck and set it up in his studio. They had to remove the back wall of the truck and it was lots of mechanical work.
My friend's desk is probably similar to the one which Mr. Heinen tore apart and sold the parts on ebay. What a sad story!!! I talked to Mr. Heinen before he started to destroy the desk and he said that it would have been too much work for him to get it out of the truck without damaging it and cutting cables.
As my friend is a electronic engineer he can do all the work himself.
Otherwise it would cost a fortune.

You should check some points.
Did the seller already remove the console from the truck?
How carefully was this work done?
Did they cut the cabling to the patchbay?
Does the board come with the patchbay ( probably Lemo) and is the cabling still in original condition?
Are all connections between the lower frame and the upper part (with the units and faders) still working?
(You can only take the two frames out of the car seperately!)
Does the seller have all papers? Important!!!!
(As those desks were always customade for individual requirements you would be lost without the schematics of this individual console!)
If the truck came from the Bavarian broadcast, there would be a chance that the console is similar to my friends desk.
In what kind of enviroment has the console been stored?
(All controls exept the Faders are switches. Humidity can cause a nightmare!!!)

Maybe the seller can answer these questions and I can check whether my friend can help you.

The internal structure of the TBG consoles is unbalanced.
There is a Line input transformer and all following stages are unbalanced exept the group outputs.
So I agree with Jensenmann that if you want to use the Eq separately and you don't have the line input transformer which brings the level down - it's mounted in the mainframe of the console - there is not too much headroom considering output levels of modern DA-converters.
Therefore it's not easy to intergrate the Eqs in a modern enviroment once they have been removed from the board.
However the desk offers more headroomin it's original condition .


That's the first big difference between this TBG console and the other German broadcast consoles. Every Siemens , Neumann and Telefunken module has transformer balanced inputs and outputs and 2nd they run on 24 Volts.
So you can easily patched them into your signal path without any problems with level or hum or balancing .

The TBG console runs on 19 Volts because they wanted to save power in the truck.
It is not exactly built to the German brown book standard!!!!
That means less headroom, as Jensenmann already mentioned.

The console is not completely discrete. The first stage of the groups is designed with ICs.
That's about all I know about TBG mixers.

Best regards,
Peter