Dynamic Kick Drum Mic

[JimJhn]

I know this is not high on everyone's list of classic mic's to recreate or modify, but has anyone built or modded a simple dynamic kick-drum microphone?

My favorite is a AKG D112 outside in front of the head for jazz, but @ $200.00 new, I really can't justify buying one AND paying the rent!

I see AliExpress has cheap kick mics that might make a good donor body (though I've never pulled apart a D112 or 52a);

https://www.aliexpress.com/af/bass-...ne&trafficChannel=af&catId=0&g=y&isFreeShip=y
but I am wondering if there is a way to mod one inexpensively to get where I am trying to sonically go?

Much obliged!

 

[Whoops]

My favorite is a AKG D112 outside in front of the head for jazz, but @ $200.00 new, I really can't justify buying one AND paying the rent!

but I am wondering if there is a way to mod one inexpensively to get where I am trying to sonically go?

$200 for a Kick Drum mic is not a lot of money, I find it pretty cheap actually.

Dynamic mics are basically a capsule, a dynamic capsule, like a speaker.
There's no electronic circuit inside it, sometimes just a transformer after the capsule, so there's not much you can do in terms of modifications.

If you are on a very tight budget why don't you get one of those B52 microphone clones and test it out?
Maybe it sounds pretty good

I've been surprised by Cheap chinese mics many times in the past, and some of them like the Tbone Ribbon mics I use those often in Professional records

 

[neowalla]

Youtube "DIY subkick". If you have any old speaker kicking around (no pun intended), you can turn it into a dynamic mic that reportedly works well for recording kick drums. There is, or was, a commercial one called the subkick. Made by Yamaha and housed in a small drum shell. Nice touch! A DIY one would definitely help you stay within your budget and if it doesn't sound the way you want, little ventured, as they say.

 

[totoxraymond]

Using a speaker as mic works well as a subkick. But most of the time, it gets blended with another microphone. Subkicks are good for carching low frequency material but rather bad at catching transients and all the higher part of the spectrum which is actually a very important part of a drum sound.

And to me, 200$ is not that expensive for a good microphone. I don't think DIY could be cheaper.

My 2 cents,

Thomas

 

[soapfoot]

Youtube "DIY subkick". If you have any old speaker kicking around (no pun intended), you can turn it into a dynamic mic that reportedly works well for recording kick drums. There is, or was, a commercial one called the subkick. Made by Yamaha and housed in a small drum shell. Nice touch! A DIY one would definitely help you stay within your budget and if it doesn't sound the way you want, little ventured, as they say.

How well this works will depend on the Thiele-Small parameters of the speaker, specifically the F(s), or self-resonant frequency.

The NS10 woofer that’s so commonly used has a F(s) of 58Hz. When excited, it rings a bit longer at that frequency, adding a small bit of 808-like character to a kick drum that’s helpful in a small range of use cases.

A different speaker would resonate at a different frequency, which may or may not work as well.

In any case, the OP mentions “jazz,” and assuming we’re talking about “the tradition that includes Max Roach, Philly Joe Jones, Art Blakey, Roy Haynes, Elvin Jones et al,” I’m not sure a subkick would be something I’d lean on heavily.

On the other hand, OP also mentions the D112, which would likewise not be my first pull for such a situation, so perhaps I’m making incorrect assumptions about what they mean by “jazz”

 

[mhelin]

Headphone driver might work as well or even better, and there are higher impedance hp drivers available like the beyer dt770 one:
google for "BEYERDYNAMIC DT952275 DRIVER For DT770 250 Ohm". There is also a 600 ohms version, DT935037.

 

[neowalla]

A little off-subject, but as an aside; when I was a child recording engineer, I used to hook up speakers as microphones all the time to my little cassette recorder to make "stealth" recordings of unsuspecting friends and family. People notice microphones, but no one ever suspects the loudspeaker sitting there on the shelf is actually being used as microphone. Speakers are surpisingly sensitive though the recordings were always very bassy, or should I say, "warm". My dad used to warn his friends "be careful what you say around this kid. You never know where he has those microphones hidden."

 

[Whoops]

In any case, the OP mentions “jazz,” and assuming we’re talking about “the tradition that includes Max Roach, Philly Joe Jones, Art Blakey, Roy Haynes, Elvin Jones et al,” I’m not sure a subkick would be something I’d lean on heavily.

You are referring to old school drummers, from an age where people listened in systems that didn't had a sub, so records didn't had sub frequencies either.
Nowadays even a small JBL or Bose bluetooth speaker has a sub and reproduces sub frequencies.

Modern Jazz production is completely different than old productions and the kick drum and the double bass are actually represented in recording and mixing with sub frequencies (that the instruments actually always reproduced).
So I don't find anything wrong in using a subkick as an additional microphone for the Kick drum in a jazz record, I've use it in the past and it's great, i just don't think that you should really on it as the only mic, it works in conjunction with another mic.

On the other hand, OP also mentions the D112, which would likewise not be my first pull for such a situation, so perhaps I’m making incorrect assumptions about what they mean by “jazz”

I don't see any problem with a D112 for a kick drum on a jazz record, it will work fine, just depending on the kick drum and the band. Every jazz drummer as their own specific kick drum sound anyway. The D112 is perfectly fine.

What I find really strange is that the OP thinks that $200 for a mic is very expensive, when that's a completely normal price or even below average for a good Kick drum microphone. So there's not much I can say besides, buy a cheap budget microphone then, maybe it does the job the OP needs

 

[neowalla]

Using a speaker as mic works well as a subkick. But most of the time, it gets blended with another microphone. Subkicks are good for carching low frequency material but rather bad at catching transients and all the higher part of the spectrum which is actually a very important part of a drum sound.

And to me, 200$ is not that expensive for a good microphone. I don't think DIY could be cheaper.

My 2 cents,

Thomas

Drum magazine has a review of the Yamaha Subkick where they pair it with a Shure Beta 52 for the transients and mix the two signals with favourable results according to the text.

 

[neowalla]

i just don't think that you should really on it as the only mic, it works in conjunction with another mic.

Whoops, you beat me to it!
Somewhere I read where George Martin, or more likely Geoff Emerick used a speaker to mic Paul's bass amp on one particular Beatles record. Also used in conjunction with another mic if I remember correctly.

 

[Whoops]

... Anyway this thread is from 2022, and the OP might not even be interested at this point in any of this discussion and advices...

 

[soapfoot]

You are referring to old school drummers, from an age where people listened in systems that didn't had a sub, so records didn't had sub frequencies either.
Nowadays even a small JBL or Bose bluetooth speaker has a sub and reproduces sub frequencies.

Modern Jazz production is completely different than old productions and the kick drum and the double bass are actually represented in recording and mixing with sub frequencies (that the instruments actually always reproduced).
So I don't find anything wrong in using a subkick as an additional microphone for the Kick drum in a jazz record, I've use it in the past and it's great, i just don't think that you should really on it as the only mic, it works in conjunction with another mic.



I don't see any problem with a D112 for a kick drum on a jazz record, it will work fine, just depending on the kick drum and the band. Every jazz drummer as their own specific kick drum sound anyway. The D112 is perfectly fine.

What I find really strange is that the OP thinks that $200 for a mic is very expensive, when that's a completely normal price or even below average for a good Kick drum microphone. So there's not much I can say besides, buy a cheap budget microphone then, maybe it does the job the OP needs

Our place in NYC records a lot of music from these traditions, and I'm of course well-aware of how fidelity and bandwidth in capture and playback systems have increased since the 1960s.

But players who operate within (and are informed by) those traditions retain many of the same concepts of drum tuning, sizing, and capture from that era.

It's useful, I feel, to understand that a subkick isn't just a capture device--it adds information and lengthens sustain a one particular frequency (58Hz in the case of an NS-10M driver) as the undamped driver resonates on its own following energy input. I mentally frame the sub-kick as a "sub-synth" that augments and lengthens sustain of a kick drum.

Someone playing in the style of one of the above-mentioned drummers may have an 18" bass drum tuned fairly-high with two full heads and only a little muffling. In this scenario, you usually will not need the drum's sustain lengthened, and the drummer/producer/artist may not be looking for additional sub frequencies (if they were, they'd likely have tuned lower and used a larger drum). Strategies that might work well in contemporary pop production can often be a sum-negative in a different context.

The time/pulse in these traditions tends to center the ride cymbal and its interaction with the double-bass. Kick and snare are used to create energy/intensity/activity that's highly non-periodic (not much "boom bap"). The timbres and roles of the various drums of the kit in this context coevolved with the function of the double bass in the ensemble. Higher tuning and smaller size are fairly idiomatic.

As for the D112--it's got a rather scoopy response and is tailored to emphasize attack and punch. In concepts where the bass drum is a midrange-focused "third hand" (often with a soft felt or even lambswool beater), this isn't usually a go-to behavior for me.

But the only rule that matters is... "whatever works."

 

[Whoops]

Our place in NYC records a lot of music from these traditions, and I'm of course well-aware of how fidelity and bandwidth in capture and playback systems have increased since the 1960s.

I know the Bunker Studio, we discussed that before. I respect the work done at Bunker and I respect you, that doesn't mean that we have to agree, specially in Engineering as it's subjective and personal and in the end we both might get good results, different but both good nonetheless.
We actually have common clients.
I also record and recorded a lot of Jazz records, I also listen to a lot of modern jazz records.

And I was just pointing out that Jazz record productions from the last 12 years have sub frequencies represented, while old jazz productions didn't, some of these modern records actually have a lot of Sub.
Myself, as an Engineer, I can say that without a doubt a subkick can be useful in a modern jazz record even if used lightly when compared to a Pop record. And I used it myself in conjunction with another "Main" kick drum mic, and it works great for a modern jazz production.

I also don't agree that the old Cats (Stars) you mentioned have drum sounds that resemble most modern jazz records.

As for the D112--it's got a rather scoopy response and is tailored to emphasize attack and punch. In concepts where the bass drum is a midrange-focused "third hand" (often with a soft felt or even lambswool beater), this isn't usually a go-to behavior for me.

It would also not be my first choice also, I like the EV 868, RE20, D12, D12VR or even a LDC conderser like a FET47 or U87.
But saying this, and it's funny, it's that the D112 is not even Mid-scooped or hyped for nowadays standards, when compared to the Beta52 or the Audix D6, it's quite chilled out actually.
I would use the D112 in a pinch for a jazz kick drum mic, if I didn't had any of my favourites around, and I would be happy

Just my 2 cents

 

[soapfoot]

You don't need a subkick to "represent" sub frequencies.

It can be useful if you want to add them

 

[Whoops]

I can agree to a certain point, but it depends on the other mic used.
If I use a RE20, Sennheiser MD421 or Beyer M88 on the kick drum I would use for sure a SubKick to represent the sub frequencies that the kick drum has and are common on a modern jazz record, as those mics are not that responsive in the sub region. So for me it depends on the mic combination and choice, also of course on what the band/artist want to achieve.

If I use a FET47 or U87 I normally don't need the subkick as a complement.

 

[Ricardus]

I know this doesn't solve your problem because it's pricey, but I've been hearing great things about the Telefunken M82. Anyone here used one?

 

[Newmarket]

Just record it with whatever you have to hand but preferably with high directionality. Then use sample replacement
I'll get my coat...

 

[Gavin Pursinger]

CRAIGSLIST BABY...Ilike the RE27. Hot signal tight pattern rejects other instruments. Plus the hi rollof switches you can add/lose attack...nice if so.e jazzy thing gets fusions or a rock band shows up with 50 bux...plus with a wind sock it can do a decent vox
I have seen Beta 52s on CL for $ 120...make shure bros the threads are good....

 

[mhelin]

This Red5 Audio's RVD1 is also a pretty decent kick drum mic:
https://www.red5audio.com/product/rvd1-kick-drum-microphone/Mentioned also on some GS threads ("Really nicely defined tone - and picks up the low-end well. Smoother mids than Beta52. Great pop and rock kick mic").

 

[mhelin]

Also the SE V-KICK looks interesting with multiple voicings:
https://seelectronics.com/products/v-kick/