Good first studio preamps on a (tight) budget

[SoundsOfJill]

Hello everyone,

I've been working from my home studio for about two years now. Picking up various small gigs in A/V and also working on my own music as an aside. Over time my needs have been shifting more and more from just editing, mixing and mastering to recording instruments and vocals for music production. I'm starting to get my first clients as a music producer, and seeing that I will get a bit of money from that I figured I might as well start planning on ways to expand my studio.
I'm doing fairly alright on my mic locker, in great part thanks to the DIY knowledge I have gathered here. And while I would love to have some outboard processing stuff, I feel like it's not my main priority.
My main struggle right now is getting enough input gain, especially for my dynamic mics. And also having some nice coloration to go with my numerous transformer less condenser mics.

I need preamps. Badly. The preamps of my 18i20 are cute and all but don't exactly cut it. I've considered the following options:
- Finding an old analog mixer with good enough preamps on it
- 500 series preamp kits
- Cheap tube preamps from studio projects
- Rackable pres (octopre, artTube optotube 8 etc.)
- Learning to make custom PSUs for console channel strips and rack mount them (I've seen a few of those around secondhand sites)

But I have no idea what is the best idea of them all. I don't have much room for error financially, and I'd rather ask the opinion of people who have potentially owned several of these solutions beforehand.
I'm especially curious of the 500series stuff. It all seems nice for DIYers but the costs of rack chassis for those are a bit scary.

Thank y'all in advance for your help.

 

[k brown]

The Scott Hampton JFET pre is worth considering; capable of lots of color when driven hard.

The two gain stages are 26dB each, so 52dB plus whatever gain from the input trafo you use.

Here's a thread about it: https://groupdiy.com/threads/hamptone-jfet-mic-preamp-with-parts-on-hand.75996/page-2 (other interesting circuits posted in that thread, too).

And a short thread on the tube version: https://groupdiy.com/threads/scott-hamptons-2002-tape-op-tube-pre-anyone-built-it.61049/

 

[soapfoot]

Hi!

I suspect your best bet will be either with 500-series stuff in kit form, or with used, well-reviewed cost-effective units like the old FMR Really Nice Preamp.

I doubt inexpensive mixers or console channels will do much better than the onboard units in your interface (unless you get a bit further up the price scale)

If it’s only gain with dynamic mics that’s your problem, you may consider trying an in-line booster/buffer a la Cloudlifter or Triton Fethead

For $18.90 US, you could maybe try the Klark Teknik CM-1 as proof of concept without too much risk

 

[jensenmann]

Get a used Midas Venice (the old one, not Venice U or F) in decent shape. The preamps are clean and very usable - more than good enough.

 

[Accelerator]

@SoundsOfJill​

Salut SoundsOfJill salutations de Grèce, bienvenue à bord !...

Ok. Let’s starting from the beginning…

Do you record analog drums daily, so you will have the “need” of an 8 * input microphone pre-amp. or not?...

As I can see your Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 [3rd Gen] has already 2 microphone XLR – Canon inputs in the front - 6 microphone XLR – Canon inputs in the back, so they are plenty more than enough to record any set of analogue drums and they are plenty more than “Good enough” to record any drummer…

Now, if you are mainly working I.T.B. and you are looking for a tube trans-formerly “channel-strip” that will “rules them all” and will add some nice vintage tube coloration to go with your numerous transformerless condenser mics for the vocals or for the solo instruments, I wouldn’t suggest anything better than the Retro Powerstrip Recording Channel that really “nails down” everything in this purpose…

If you are mainly working I.T.B. and you are looking for a Tube stereo pre-amp. just to add some nice coloration to go with your stereo instruments (e.g. synths, organs, stage pianos…) or to re-amping your soft synths / Kontakt libraries there are many rack-able Tube stereo pre-amps. to choose and as you know “the sky is the limit”, but I believe that the Stam Audio Firechild – 2-Channel Tube Microphone Preamplifier it will be more than “good enough to go” for this purpose, but if you get some good outboard valve processing stuff like the Stam Audio MEQP-1AS+ – Stereo Analog Tube Equalizer you will investment your money in a much better way for this task…

 

[kags]

Bang-for-the-buck and with good (optical) integration with the 18i20 is the Audient ASP800. It’s eight nice preamps with ADAT optical out that shouws up as inputs 9-16 in your existing interface.

500 series kits a decent prices from CAPI, JLM, Diyrefordingequipmemt, FiveFish, Seventh Circle, and AML. Probably more I’m forgetting.

Kits might not save any money over used, inexpensive units by Warm, dBX, Lindell, Frederstein, etc.. but can be more rewarding and possibly higher quality.

 

[TimG]

Echoing soapfoot, I just got a well priced FMR Really Nice Preamp in a funk logic rack case with a RNC, and it’s actually pretty neat. Quiet. Tons of gain for any application. Plays well with other individual componants.
.
I want to try the FMC pair on my Rhodes piano as an alternate preamp.

 

[Dylan W]

What’s your budget and how many channels do you need?

 

[samic]

look at "general audio research" in france, they sell pcbs for diy and original 500 format preamps at really good prices, best value for money
https://general-audio-research.jimdofree.com/
I think he only makes them on demand.

 

[Wavelength]

Go 500 series, I built a couple of these they sound great:
https://www.diyrecordingequipment.c...Ovzy91n_St7JY-xWDSYfWUT-7OQ-raaEaAqPwEALw_wcB

 

[Newmarket]

I think the key to the answer here is what is meant by "The preamps of my 18i20 are cute and all but don't exactly cut it." ? What are the perceived deficiencies here ? Or are you looking for a particular sound characteristic of a specific mic pre ?

 

[SoundsOfJill]

Thank you everyone for the replies, I don't think I can exactly reply to each and everyone of you individually, still I'll try to address everything:

First of all, my issue with my 18i20 is mostly the amount of gain I can get out of the preamps.
On top of that I do wish I could have a few preamps that could bring some pleasant coloration, especially when tracking vocals.

Some of you mentioned recording drums. While I am not yet doing it, it is a planned expansion of my studio as I start clearing my dining room to make it into a small live room. Extra inputs using ADAT or S/PDIF would definitely be nice.

My budget is sub 1k, ideally sub 600, I'm not looking for anything new, and I don't mind fixing stuff obviously.

@kags mentioned the ASP800 and that sounds like a good solution. I'll definitely keep an eye out on the used market for one at a good price.

A lot of you mentioned 500 series format equipment, but what should I do when it comes to racking them? I can't find any 500 series rack for cheap enough where I would have enough left for much in terms of kits.
Is there a way to jerryrig a 500 series module to work on its own? Or maybe schematics or plans to make my own rack units?

Again, my budget is very tight, it kinda sucks but I make due with the little I can get from small engineering gigs and the odd paying concerts I get.

 

[living sounds]

I really love the sound of the JLM Baby Animal preamp with their 99V op amp and 1:4 input trafo. Good enough for everything, easy build and very affordable. But you won't get 8 for under 1k...

 

[MicMaven]

Again, my budget is very tight, it kinda sucks but I make due with the little I can get from small engineering gigs and the odd paying concerts I get.

Um ... er ... I suspect you do not have enough bucks for the bang you seek.

With all respect (seriously) I suggest you get a couple of inline boosters for the low output dynamic microphones, and otherwise stick with what you have now, while concentrating on improving your recording technique, microphone placement, working the venue, mixing and post-production style, spending as little money as possible now while saving up for a more substantial upgrade in the future. I doubt your budget will buy you anything that provides an appreciable difference in final outcome, so I recommend concentrating on your sound, and spending money only when you 1) must to accomplish a specific result you cannot achieve now, and 2) acquire substantially better gear when it makes sense. Otherwise, I suspect you are majoring in minors, anxious to do something now - wait until you can overhaul the whole process, avoiding minor upgrades that may not substantially improve your work product.

But that is just MY take. Your mileage may differ. James

 

[ruffrecords]

I think the key to the answer here is what is meant by "The preamps of my 18i20 are cute and all but don't exactly cut it." ? What are the perceived deficiencies here ? Or are you looking for a particular sound characteristic of a specific mic pre ?

I agree. Most modern preamps are pretty transparent and add little if anything to the sound (which is as it should be). The sound you actually get depends more on the talent, the mic choice, its placement and the acoustics.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Newmarket]

First of all, my issue with my 18i20 is mostly the amount of gain I can get out of the preamps.
On top of that I do wish I could have a few preamps that could bring some pleasant coloration, especially when tracking vocals.

Some of you mentioned recording drums. While I am not yet doing it, it is a planned expansion of my studio as I start clearing my dining room to make it into a small live room. Extra inputs using ADAT or S/PDIF would definitely be nice.

My budget is sub 1k, ideally sub 600, I'm not looking for anything new, and I don't mind fixing stuff obviously.

A bit of searching and I see that there is some confusion around about the 18i20 mic pre gain depending on the generation of the unit. Seems gain was sacrificed in order to increase the perceived headroom after previous adverse comments. Specs not really clear. Should still be plenty for most mics though especially in a close mic'd setup such as a typical band recording.
As for "colour / saturation". Well unless you get lucky and love the sound of a random cheap mic pre in a desk or similar, you're unlikely to get multiple channels of what you want within your budget.
Suggest trial PlugIns to get an idea of hardware units that you might go with. Also bear in mind that most micpres don't show their "sonic signature" until they are pushed.

 

[heatwalk]

You can score Shure M67 4x1 mic mixers on ebay for less than $100 in various condition from beatup to totally fine. I believe a direct out tap is ~40dB per channel plus more gain from the summed line out. You could run those into the 18i20 and get more gain and youll get some color variation. You’ll want some inline pads handy for hot inputs.

 

[My3gger]

With all respect (seriously) I suggest you get a couple of inline boosters for the low output dynamic microphones, and otherwise stick with what you have now, while concentrating on improving your recording technique, microphone placement, working the venue, mixing and post-production style, spending as little money as possible now while saving up for a more substantial upgrade in the future.

But that is just MY take. Your mileage may differ. James

Good advice. I learned this the hard way when helping someone with interface having preamps based on THAT/INA/SSM mic amps ICs make 1ch of HJFP for months, many months because they didn't want to take necessary steps to finish the thing.

 

[totoxraymond]

Midas XL48 would give you 8 very clean preamps And lot of gain alongside digital expansion.

Cheers,

Thomas

 

[DainiusF]

Hello everyone,

I've been working from my home studio for about two years now. Picking up various small gigs in A/V and also working on my own music as an aside. Over time my needs have been shifting more and more from just editing, mixing and mastering to recording instruments and vocals for music production. I'm starting to get my first clients as a music producer, and seeing that I will get a bit of money from that I figured I might as well start planning on ways to expand my studio.
I'm doing fairly alright on my mic locker, in great part thanks to the DIY knowledge I have gathered here. And while I would love to have some outboard processing stuff, I feel like it's not my main priority.
My main struggle right now is getting enough input gain, especially for my dynamic mics. And also having some nice coloration to go with my numerous transformer less condenser mics.

I need preamps. Badly. The preamps of my 18i20 are cute and all but don't exactly cut it. I've considered the following options:
- Finding an old analog mixer with good enough preamps on it
- 500 series preamp kits
- Cheap tube preamps from studio projects
- Rackable pres (octopre, artTube optotube 8 etc.)
- Learning to make custom PSUs for console channel strips and rack mount them (I've seen a few of those around secondhand sites)

But I have no idea what is the best idea of them all. I don't have much room for error financially, and I'd rather ask the opinion of people who have potentially owned several of these solutions beforehand.
I'm especially curious of the 500series stuff. It all seems nice for DIYers but the costs of rack chassis for those are a bit scary.

Thank y'all in advance for your help.

Cheap tube preamps - the question is an extremely delicate one (there is a danger, that cheap one may be not professional or semiprofessional, but educational one):
for example the price of ECC83 tube (suitable for guitar preamp) is ~ 30 -40 Eur (usually for one channel at least 2 pcs. required)
The price of pots (cermet) ~15 Eur/one (usually for one channel at least 4 pcs. required)
Assembled PCB with Vishay Dale or PRP Audio metal film resistors, Vishay, LCR capacitors, preadjusted, ready to use ~ 100-120 Eur
Power supply (HV, cathode heater) ~100 - 120 Eur
by my own experience - 3 years ago, 2 channels guitar preamp which I "did yourself" and had the sound which I like, has cost ~800 Eur (investigation and development cost before is not included)
The result could cursory reviewed at diyhifiaudio.com