Guns at the grocery store

[Whoops]

I really don't see how a thread about a shooting at a grocery store became another thread about Black and White in the USA, something that was not related at all with the initial post neither the discussion that followed.

I'm out also

 

[Brian Roth]

I accidentally started this fracas with a news story about a moron who shot and killed a store clerk over an argument involving wearing a face mask. There is a (significant?) number of similar morons here in the USA. "You can't tell me what to do....so I'll kill you".

Sad.

Bri

 

[john12ax7]

It's very sad. The messed up part is so many don't seem to understand what rights actually are. A private business is well within its authority to place restrictions on customers while on their property. It's not an infringement on an individuals rights at all. Maybe better education on this could help prevent such senseless violence.

 

[Brian Roth]

Long before the mask requirements, many stores had (and still do) a sign stating "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service". I don't recall any shootings caused by that sign.

Bri

 

[john12ax7]

You are correct about the shoes and shirt. But that also wasn't a divisive politicized issue.

 

[boji]

But that also wasn't a divisive politicized issue.

If it was a new idea and practice only discovered today, we can bet it would be!

racial grievance industry

Better to call it Morality Inc, or the commodification of pride.

 

[user 37518]

To be honest, the whole anti-mask thing is something from the US, here in Mexico everyone just wears it, yes we might be sheep, but its just a freaking mask, even priests give mass with the mask on. There are of course some isolated cases of people who get insane because they are asked to leave some place for not wearing a mask, but its rare.

I honestly don't know what's the big deal about wearing a mask, people take it too personal. Yes I don't like it, its uncomfortable and it makes my face sweat, but it could be worse. Wayne is obssesed with the mask thing like if its the mark of the beast.

 

[rock soderstrom]

"No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service"

This is the first time I've heard of this and until just now I felt this is really far away.

Then today I saw at Lidl at the checkout a guy (about 70 years old, tanned and quite fat) in swimming trunks. Just swimming trunks!

The interesting thing is, everyone acted as if that was completely normal. What a sight! I will never forget that. We need signs like that at Lidl.

 

[JohnRoberts]

You mean the cop who arrested the black Harvard professor on his own porch for ‘looking suspicious’? I wouldn't use that as an example of good policing. I remember them having a beer. Making nice always helps but I’d hardly call it walking back anything. I think it was more for the photo op the President and a Harvard professor being black and the lowly cop being white.

Lets not completely re-write the history.... The police officers responded to a 911 call about a possible burglary in process, so they were trying to protect that professor's (Gates) property, my suspicion is that instead of thanking them, he lost his temper. In the professor's defense he was just returning from a long flight (from China) so probably tired, and his front door was jammed, so his driver was helping him get it unstuck. Apparently his neighbors didn't recognize him so called the police because of suspicious looking activity. He was charged by the police with disorderly conduct (not breaking and entering) so probably more heat than light in his response to police questions. Days later the charges against Gates were dropped, even before President Obama shared his opinion nationally.

"I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home, and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

In the aftermath, Obama stated that he regretted his comments and hoped that the situation could become a "teachable moment".

Years later, in his memoir A Promised Land, Obama wrote that according to the White House's polling, the incident caused a larger drop in white support for his presidency than any other single event.

Yup, I recall it pretty vividly. The Rose garden beer summit was IMO President Obama's attempt to walk back his unfounded knee jerk accusations made against those Cambridge police officers.

In hindsight that was all pretty tame compared to today's political climate vis a vis the police.

JR

PS; My apologies for stirring this pot but I see the concerted effort to neuter police a dangerous trend.

 

[scott2000]

I don't know, I'd be willing to trade in some officers for maybe some lifeguards showing up

 

[rock soderstrom]

What would you trade in, your swim trunks or your gun?

 

[Gold]

Lets not completely re-write the history....

At least we agree on the facts. He was arrested on his porch.

That’s quite a trick considering he probably had something with his name on it. One would hope his concerned neighbors would recognize him as well.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I'm not going to cut and paste the entire wiki page about this incident.

He apparently became abusive toward the police officer during the incident (The exact opposite of my advice.)

Don't take my word for it. wiki page

Apparently Gates and the arresting officer became friendly after all the beers.

Beer may be the solution to world peace.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Switserland also has a lot of guns, but it really lacks in the gun violence department.

So I guess it's not the guns, but the people.

I think the main problem the US has is drug related, so many mood altering drugs being pushed onto the people I'm not surprised someone occasionally freaks out high on pills and goes on a killing spree.

It's mainly a mental health problem would be my guess.
Combined with guns, that's a recipe for disaster.

Switzerland is not really relevant in gun discussion. The vast majority of those guns are the standard military rifle everyone gets to take home and keep after military service. That weapon is only meant to come out in times of war, or secondary training.

The main problem in the US is still poisoning. Environmental, or drinking water, there are just too many places growing violently insane youth. Add high availability of guns and nobody in his right mind will join the police. So it's fools against idiots...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Switzerland is not really relevant in gun discussion. The vast majority of those guns are the standard military rifle everyone gets to take home and keep after military service. That weapon is only meant to come out in times of war, or secondary training.

actually it seems kind of relevant in a "guns cause shooting violence" argument, especially when military "like" assault weapons get singled out as especially problematic. The Swiss are not immune to modern politics and there are calls there to recall all the weapons and store them in central armories. Some argue that a well armed populace has made Switzerland less attractive to aggressive neighbors.

The main problem in the US is still poisoning. Environmental, or drinking water, there are just too many places growing violently insane youth.

I don't think its the water but there is a poisonous modern culture, growing worse.

Add high availability of guns

The easy availability of illegal guns is IMO a factor. Chicago has long complained about illegal gun trafficking from Indiana (already illegal), but this is a problem in many cities. Chicago refused federal help when offered by the last administration, now the mayor is asking for federal help (there may be some politics involved in the that flip flop.

During the height of the "defund police" movement, NYC disbanded a street crime unit whose primary purpose was getting guns out of the hands of gangs and off the streets. I think common sense prevailed and they brought thay unit back but with a different name to quiet the social justice harpies.

and nobody in his right mind will join the police.

Not just trouble recruiting, but existing officers are retiring in record numbers.

So it's fools against idiots...

Not sure which group I am in (rhetorical please don't tell me). I read in a newspaper article today where the writer called an AR15 a pistol. Perhaps not an idiot, but ignorant.

It seems like there are some common sense causes for the deteriorating civil order trend, but as usual we all have "different" common sense solutions. SOSDD (same old shite different day)

JR

[edit the early results from NYC's democratic mayoral primary (the republican primary pretty much doesn't matter) shows that the leading democratic candidate is a former police officer, while the candidate in second place is anti-police, moderates hold 3rd and 4th places. It appears the voters have a clear choice. Next we will see how mail in ballots skew the results /edit]