have we gone too far?

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pucho812 said:
guys guys, I was just looking a discussion about the world crying wolf. I have had a hell of a week sleeping a couple hour max a night  and dealing with b.s. related to those who's singular purpose is to not peacefully protest and wish to cause harm to people, businesses, and so on in my fair city and my inner circle.  luckily the studio was unharmed and even the guy on the roof the other night who claimed to be packing  eventually left without  major incident. The guy in the OP  eventually called me a racist  because I didn't support the notion that the one singular company was given their location at NAMM based on the fact they were from Spain.  Logic with people of this nature is non-existant, facts and figures do not matter. What's worse is they want to tell everyone they know  what they think about you because they say it is so. to said individual I am a racist.  This has potential to effect business.  I doubt it will but you never know. Plus any explanation of I am not a racist comes off as some way to  still be one  but get the people to think otherwise.  it's a no win argument, especially when their mind is made up.  while in hindsight it is  best to not engage such loons, at the moment seemed appropriate. Not everything is about race, creeds, color, genders, orientation or any combo thereof.    This past week there was a call to boycott sweetwater because their president chuck shurack(sp) apparently donated  money to then governor mike pence and his campaign back in 2016. Pence became trumps VP pick and the money went into the trump campaign.  What is really nobodies business turned into a sh*t storm with chuck releasing a statement about how he didn't know.  Then there was a rally of pro audio folks  saying how great sweetwater is  and how you should still shop there.  Will it effect business who knows and if so how much?

There has to be a point of enough. There are real issues, needing to be  address. then there are made up issues that the social media arm chair quarterbacks come up with  that do not really exist.  it's getting old when people cry wolf.  it's getting old having to defend any statement  that is different then what the masses demand you say.  2020 the year where people want to hear their opinions coming out of your mouth

I respect that you're going through a very stressful time. Baltimore's been really quiet the last couple weeks and even when we had riots alongside peaceful protests my house wasn't going to be affected and certainly not my business. (I live in a fairly idyllic mixed neighborhood a few blocks from a historically black college.)

However, I will observe the following about your post:
1. It reads like you came to a place that was "safe" -- I have no doubt that there are people of color on this forum, but literally the only person I know who said they were left because they felt like a lot of people here made racist comments and they no longer felt welcome. So you weren't likely to get perspectives of people who might have first hand knowledge to discuss (impersonally) the accusations made by a person who wouldn't listen to "facts." If you have friends who are people of color who work in the industry, especially if they've ever had a booth at NAMM give them a call, describe what was said, and ask if they've ever experienced something similar. Just to be clear: It doesn't *matter* in this situation whether the person you were arguing with was factually correct or incorrect. They could be wrong, and you could prove that they're wrong, but it might be that they're only wrong in this particular instance.
2. It is perfectly possible that person has actually experienced racism in the industry, and that your argument read as "I haven't personally observed this so it doesn't happen." It's okay to just listen, reflect, and move on without arguing or even discussing it with people.*
3. Any even vaguely political thread here attracts the exact same group of people. Some of them base their entire "discussion" tactics on bringing up unrelated topics after giving their two cents. So I feel like this isn't the best place to just vent ... it's always going to become a political $%#&show.

*Here's a personal story for this: I have a friend who posted that NPR was disrespectful to President Obama for calling him Mr. Obama. At the time, NPR followed a conventional news reporting standard and I linked to articles going back to President Clinton that always referred to the president by name. I got told off (gently -- the dude is seriously one of the nicest people I know), deleted my links, and instead just read the thread. The world is no worse because I did that. They might have detected some other biased from NPR's usually favorable coverage. Hell, they might have thought that NPR's often overly favorable coverage was itself a problem whose origins were racial. [Side note: The only NPR programs I can get on my local stations that have black voices are Kojo Nnamdi in DC and Morgan State's, and NPR as a whole, while very liberal, still has a representation problem in their on-air presenters that can affect the breadth and depth of their coverage. (The difference between NPR and other broadcast news sources, as far as I can tell, is that NPR acknowledges its limitations on air and makes an effort to overcome them.) This isn't just a public radio problem. Music stations are extremely segregated in this country, to the point where my college's station had to give a 2-minute speech about how they'll "play anything" before airing a listener-voted Kanye West song during their year-end best-of. If they really were willing to play anything, they wouldn't have to warn their listeners that they're about to hear a damn pop song that uses some hip hop elements.]
 
Gold said:
There is no requirement for police departments to report this. There are no statistics. That is exactly a reform that is necessary. Every police killing should be investigated and reported federally.
This FBI database goes well beyond killings, but all use of force incidents.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr/use-of-force 

This is relatively new (just started collecting data officially jan 1 2019). A little over one year old but seems like a good start. 

JR

PS: Measuring behavior can sometimes change that behavior.... measuring this should not make it worse.
 
midwayfair said:
I respect that you're going through a very stressful time. Baltimore's been really quiet the last couple weeks and even when we had riots alongside peaceful protests my house wasn't going to be affected and certainly not my business. (I live in a fairly idyllic mixed neighborhood a few blocks from a historically black college.)

However, I will observe the following about your post:
1. It reads like you came to a place that was "safe" -- I have no doubt that there are people of color on this forum, but literally the only person I know who said they were left because they felt like a lot of people here made racist comments and they no longer felt welcome. So you weren't likely to get perspectives of people who might have first hand knowledge to discuss (impersonally) the accusations made by a person who wouldn't listen to "facts." If you have friends who are people of color who work in the industry, especially if they've ever had a booth at NAMM give them a call, describe what was said, and ask if they've ever experienced something similar. Just to be clear: It doesn't *matter* in this situation whether the person you were arguing with was factually correct or incorrect. They could be wrong, and you could prove that they're wrong, but it might be that they're only wrong in this particular instance.
2. It is perfectly possible that person has actually experienced racism in the industry, and that your argument read as "I haven't personally observed this so it doesn't happen." It's okay to just listen, reflect, and move on without arguing or even discussing it with people.*
3. Any even vaguely political thread here attracts the exact same group of people. Some of them base their entire "discussion" tactics on bringing up unrelated topics after giving their two cents. So I feel like this isn't the best place to just vent ... it's always going to become a political $%#&show.

*Here's a personal story for this: I have a friend who posted that NPR was disrespectful to President Obama for calling him Mr. Obama. At the time, NPR followed a conventional news reporting standard and I linked to articles going back to President Clinton that always referred to the president by name. I got told off (gently -- the dude is seriously one of the nicest people I know), deleted my links, and instead just read the thread. The world is no worse because I did that. They might have detected some other biased from NPR's usually favorable coverage. Hell, they might have thought that NPR's often overly favorable coverage was itself a problem whose origins were racial. [Side note: The only NPR programs I can get on my local stations that have black voices are Kojo Nnamdi in DC and Morgan State's, and NPR as a whole, while very liberal, still has a representation problem in their on-air presenters that can affect the breadth and depth of their coverage. (The difference between NPR and other broadcast news sources, as far as I can tell, is that NPR acknowledges its limitations on air and makes an effort to overcome them.) This isn't just a public radio problem. Music stations are extremely segregated in this country, to the point where my college's station had to give a 2-minute speech about how they'll "play anything" before airing a listener-voted Kanye West song during their year-end best-of. If they really were willing to play anything, they wouldn't have to warn their listeners that they're about to hear a damn pop song that uses some hip hop elements.]

Our neighborhood where the studio is at is predominantly mixed. We welcome and know all kinds. The same goes with the pro audio side and namm.  Me coming here to ask opinions is because generally we have respect for one another. I know and  mix with all kinds.  As I have best described things: some will tell you I am a saint, some describe me as an asshole. Believe them both as I acted accordingly.  Last night was the first quiet night we had.  I am putting this to bed and going to let their comments go like water off a ducks back. I got  more important things so focus on.  Like the people here who respect each other.
 

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