Hot off the scanner: Barbour on Feedback...

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alk509

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I scanned a cool article by Eric Barbour about feedback in tube amps. It's from the now defunct magazine Glass Audio:

http://home.comcast.net/~alkoury/Barbour_on_feedback.pdf

It's 6.8MB - you have been warned!

And if somebody wants to host it, that would be great, as I can't host it forever.

Peace,
Al.
 
> now defunct magazine Glass Audio:

Glass Audio is part of AudioXpress, which actively sells back-issues of their magazines on dead-tree and CDROM. I think you are stepping on their toes. And IMHO we should support AudioXpress for their 35+ years of promoting DIY electronics, through some very lean years when DIY audio was out of fashion.
 
[quote author="PRR"]Glass Audio is part of AudioXpress, which actively sells back-issues of their magazines on dead-tree and CDROM.[/quote]

Oops! :oops:

File down.

Glass Audio is great (aside from the occasional hint of audiophoolery). Every serious tube audio experimenter should look for those back issues!

Peace,
Al.
 
> aside from the occasional hint of audiophoolery

I think Ed's innocent non-judgemental approach is poor journalism but probably a key to the long run of his very specialized magazine(s). I don't think Ed has deep technical insight; he has published some pretty dubious stuff that any senior EE student would (or should) cough at. Yet if strict technical accuracy were required, it would be the Journal of the IEEE, with in-depth analysis of small things nobody cares about.

I love Audio Amateur et seq enough to wish they could be better. But I'm not sure what "better" would be. In any case, for carrying the torch through some dark ages of audio DIY, and for what they may bring us in the future, I'm not keen to see people sharing AA/GA/SB/aXp reprints, since that is a large secondary income stream for what is really a very small operation who needs and deserves the money.

Besides which, they could sue the forum and our hosts. True, a lawyer might cost more than all their reprint sales combined, but why make trouble for AA/aXp or for PPro?

I know there are students, refugees, and people far from AudioXpress's office who simply can not afford to buy rice and beans, much less reprints or export tariffs. Sharing happens. But if possible, support the people who made the knowledge available.

(BTW: they have the entire set of 1970s Audio Amateur on CD for $40: this is a BIG BARGAIN. An eclectic but rich bag. I can't think of any comparable $40 audio-knowledge source. I have a near-complete set on tattered paper: I should probably get the CD and put the paper in comic-bags for posterity.)
 
Agree in toto with you on that PRR. Ed is a gentleman and has kept those magazines afloat against all odds these many years.

I've written several letters, some critical, some merely praising. But I try to remember that these are not referreed journal submissions but contributions from a wide spectrum of people, who receive a negligible honorarium for what is sometimes a whole lot of work. So despite some of the howlers, I am not scathing.

When OTOH some arrogant a**hole holds forth, for example in Electronics World, I have been known to see red, such as the time that an rf engineer decided to enlighten us about how IM distortion was what we stupid audio folk should be measuring (as if we weren't). I probably should have just taken a stress pill and had a lie-down, as HAL counsels Dave Bowman to do in 2001, but they printed the letter in all its caustic glory.

That same article was reprinted in AudioXpress, but the vitriol was out of my system by then.
 
> these are not referreed journal submissions

Today's aX offers at least three examples.

Nelson Pass is playing with high-Z amplifiers, damping factor like 0.1. That would raise eyebrows on the peer committee. True, it does not change the midband, and the slope in the treble can be designed-away in the speaker (or a zobel...). Quite interesting bass is possible in large baffles or in horns (another of Pass' toys). I think the killer flaw is that a hi-Z amp does not allow the small-box speakers, AR-3 et al. For the same flattness, efficiency, and F3, the hi-Z amp will always need a larger box.

The Ω pipe speaker article is interesting. A factor of 10 is pulled from thin air and locked in stone without examination. The result may be more an extended vented box than a pipe. It does take a given speaker deeper than is practical in a vented box, but the F3/size/efficiency factor is like a vent-box. Oh, he stumbles over the Fs/Qts ratio but does not notice that Fs/Qts is a key parameter for a speaker driver.

And those darn PA horns. Lot of hogwash theory. LOT of time in the woodshed. I must admit his results are interesting. The current one gives a horn-gain that hits or beats what I would expect from perfect horns that size. It "beats" because he's getting a huge amount of directivity, boosting the on-axis and near-axis SPLs. It would be interesting to see total-output and Q figures. But to come anywhere near a perfect horn, in a box that size, with construction that is darn difficult but not insanely so, shows that he does not take his hogwash theories too far.

I shouldn't get started on the Line Amp essay, except to note that the current source will NOT "begin to pump current at power-on", and you do NOT have to let the tubes heat before applying B+. It is NOT a "current source", it is a current limiter, and can't "pump current". Argh.

Oh, the article on digital amplifiers surprised me. It is a TI-written puff-piece. I don't mind that: cutting-edge work like this often comes out of commercial labs and who else could write it up as well? But in this case, where's the beef??? Technical information is just a pretty picture and some pretty words. I know exactly how their new scheme differs from the common "digital" amplifiers; I invented the plan a decade or two before it was practical. But the article does not explain actual operation even at dummy-level. I think TI should have been charged ad page-rate for most of that piece. And they probably have better text right on the chip-series data-sheets. I know I've seen a plain-text tech-explanation somewhere, maybe from the days before TI ate the patents.

> When OTOH some arrogant a**hole holds forth, for example in Electronics World

In recent years, Wireless World et seq have fallen on hard times. They don't have revenue so they can't pay, and have to take what they can get.

> the time that an rf engineer decided to enlighten us about how IM distortion was what we stupid audio folk should be measuring

I recall the article and, ignorant as he is, the RF racket's tests are a useful way to think about audio. 2nd order and 3rd order intercept, and 1dB compression, are valid for audio amps with simple nonlinearities. Multi-tone missing-bin IM testing may be a very sensitive test of complex flaws that our ears hear.
 
Haven't gotten my copy yet, but I'll be particularly interested in the TI article since I came close to doing a bunch of work for them on a design to provide their customers with higher power, while they were waiting for the group in Denmark to get their act together.

We had a slight difference of opinion at the end of negotiations as to how much it would cost---about a factor of 4. Needless to say that was the end of that :mad:
 
> When OTOH some arrogant a**hole holds forth, for example in Electronics World

In recent years, Wireless World et seq have fallen on hard times. They don't have revenue so they can't pay, and have to take what they can get.

So true, there are indeed more 'hmm hmm'-articles in EW the last years.
But they approach part of the problem creatively: they send out the books they receive for review. So you tell them you want to receive one of the listed books, read & review it and can keep it. Could be considered a 'poor' way of doing things but is imho not such a bad idea, be it born out of necessity. You may get some 'level-fluctuations' (like a certain upcoming review :wink: ), but you already got that with the Circuit Ideas.

Bye,

Peter
 
Neither publication seems to be what it used to be. But going through the back issues can provide a lot of perspective, from the radical objectivist stance of a certain vocal designer and author to to totally empirical and subjective stances of designers whose primary education is an art degree.
And both have turned out some great stuff. And while I have cringed at stuff printed on both sides, trying to understand both views has certainly given me a better understanding of audio engineering. And I do have to mention they both also have had many excellent articles that are spot on IMHO
You do have to hand it to Mr. Dell, keeping it alive for all these years is quite an accomplishment.
In addition, anyone who reads the EE trade mags knows audio mags are not alone in printing stuff that may have questionable basis.
 
[quote author="GregL"]
In addition, anyone who reads the EE trade mags knows audio mags are not alone in printing stuff that may have questionable basis.[/quote]

Boy you can say that again. Especially when it comes to switching amps! Most of the trade mags' articles are little more than puff pieces for the authors' employers, totally self-serving.

One guy, Joshua Israelsohn, who writes for EDN, is a notable exception. I look forward to anything he pens. He is also gracious and responsive to e-mails.
 
[quote author="PRR"]> these are not referreed journal submissions

Today's aX

I shouldn't get started on the Line Amp essay, except to note that the current source will NOT "begin to pump current at power-on", and you do NOT have to let the tubes heat before applying B+. It is NOT a "current source", it is a current limiter, and can't "pump current". Argh.

Oh, the article on digital amplifiers surprised me. It is a TI-written puff-piece. I don't mind that: cutting-edge work like this often comes out of commercial labs and who else could write it up as well? But in this case, where's the beef??? Technical information is just a pretty picture and some pretty words. I know exactly how their new scheme differs from the common "digital" amplifiers; I invented the plan a decade or two before it was practical. But the article does not explain actual operation even at dummy-level. I think TI should have been charged ad page-rate for most of that piece. And they probably have better text right on the chip-series data-sheets. I know I've seen a plain-text tech-explanation somewhere, maybe from the days before TI ate the patents.

[/quote]

My copy just arrived.

Arrgghhhh......

The line amp thingy---yeah, pretty sloppy. I wish for once one of these guys would actually show the real equations for these circuits. But that didn't raise my blood pressure like the "Audio Path to the Future."

Kevin Belnap is a nice and reasonable guy, but sheesh! That "article" is an embarrasment imo. But then in my opinion the whole "digital" amp thing borders on fraudulent. And then we have the statement "because the digital amplifier converts the signal to analog with passive components, this conversion introduces no distortion in the signal."

Wacckkk! Show me where I can get some of those perfect inductors, for starters.

And no mention made of the effect on output Z, interaction with real loudspeaker loads...in fact I think most of the time when people gush about hearing something they hadn't heard on a track before it's because of coloration, mostly frequency response anomalies introduced by the loudspeaker interaction with the output filter. In that regard the UcD stuff developed at Ph*lips is at least closing the loop around the offender---but then those are analog-input switchamps.

Also no mention is made in the article of the limitations of the FET drivers and the effects of their noise and jitter, the intrinsic noise associated with the messy switching of the output devices, reverse recovery body diodes, etc. And there is no recourse with this topology to correcting for these errors. And attempts to do so tend to---guess what---use A/D converters! Which then inject more out-of-band crap back into the processing chain...

Also there is no mention of the much higher sensitivity to power supply noise (compared to either linear amps or "analog" class D). And also there's the implication that digital signals are magically immune to interference from FETs in the vicinity switching many volts and amps in nanoseconds.

Arrggghh!

Well now that I'm assured of never getting any work from TI, I guess I can calm down.
 
I would love to read some articles in AX by our very own PRR and Bcarso! :grin: (although, I'm afraid it may take me 2 lifetimes to understand them...)

I have noticed that some of the AX articles make blanket generalizations and obscure conclusions without much justification. That Digital Amp article intrigued me so I started reading. The first thing that JUMPED out at me was that this guy (as the story goes) heard a guitar solo that he hadn't heard before through this new amp. That's one magical guitar playing amplifier! So therefore... This amp is the answer to everyone's desire to hear those phantom guitar solos. (Can you imagine listening to Dark Side of the Moon on this thing!?) I bet he also used to play Beatles records in reverse listening for hidden messages (OK, so we have one thing in common :wink:). Why didn't he investigate: "what was it that caused that guitar sound to be masked?"

Some of the logic behind audiophile thinking is funny. ...as if their $50,000 audio systems will RE-produce something far more majestic than what has been recorded on the medium in the first place.
 
BTW, can you give us the gist of what Eric said without getting us sued?
Like "NFB sucks. It generates more artifacts and phase problems than it solves" or something like thta?
Thanks!
 
PRR said: "In recent years, Wireless World et seq have fallen on hard times. They don't have revenue so they can't pay, and have to take what they can get. "

I got a newsstand copy of the Sept. Electronics World yesterday, and have to agree it also seems to be getting weaker.

There is a timely article about measuring switching amps, although once again it is somewhat inevitably self-serving since it leads up to the recently introduced Ap fixture, a fancy passive filter box. It is miscaptioned as being a switching amplifier (I guess Ed Dell is not the only overworked editor).

It does have a very informative graph comparing the IM products introduced by a ferrite core inductor vs. an air core. I wish the conditions of measurement and inductors were described, but it does have bearing qualitatively on Belnap's assertion in the aXpress piece about the absence of such distortion.

I know the guy who worked on this product before his layoff by Ap, and he told me Hofer required a bit of convincing about the need for the air core parts used in the product.

The inductor orientations and the chassis material were also factors requiring attention.

Oh---also reading more of the Pass aXp article, I was amused to see his statement, undoubtedly true, that the amplifier "will not sound good with 98% of the loudspeakers on the market." :shock: I wonder how many people skimmimg the piece will get the opposite sense?

Also in the line amp one, although it is possible he means a 1N4181 (which is a 62V 1W zener) used in the forward direction, it's much more likely that is a consistent typo throughout and that a 1N4148 is intended. When I looked for data on the 4181 I found an article which made the same typo (but only once---the rest of the time a 4148 was indicated).
 
[quote author="bcarso"]I got a newsstand copy of the Sept. Electronics World yesterday, and have to agree it also seems to be getting weaker.

There is a timely article about measuring switching amps, although once again it is somewhat inevitably self-serving since it leads up to the recently introduced Ap fixture, a fancy passive filter box. It is miscaptioned as being a switching amplifier (I guess Ed Dell is not the only overworked editor).
[/quote]

That article is indeed a nice add for that AP-box... a bit too easy one could say, perhaps they just should have added (semi-advertisement) above it.

I did appreciate this line:
"Power amplification is accomplished by modulating the switching duty cycle of semiconductors (or vacuum tubes) as they alternate between high conduction and off states." :grin:

I'm not aware of hollow state switching amps for audio use but I guess it's perfectly possible. Why one would use a filiament-device to make a hi-efficiency amp is beyond me though... :roll:
Probably the same people that made that tubed MIDI-interface...

Bye,

Peter
 
I don't know the reference(s), but I was told that as usual switching amps beyond class C were conceived of in pre-sand days. Don't know anyone who's been fool enough errrr...I mean visionary enough, to attempt them lately.
 
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