I'm going to post this in a separate thread.

Help Support GroupDIY:

PRR

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Jan 30, 2010
Messages
11,144
Location
Maine USA
Awful thread title.

Coming in late and slow....

> Steve asked to use my la2a layout - he offered to pay in future hardware - I declined.

You could have asked for cash. IMHO, you should have. Your bad business decision. It is an interesting example of what can happen when you post anything anywhere.

If Steve did not indicate that he was going to produce and sell your layout, you have moral grounds to renegotiate with Steve. Since you already declined his first offer and apparently indicated he could use the design as he wished, legally he may not have to; but peer pressure here may be stronger than any legal theory.

But to be honest: everything in audio is built on the shoulders of others. If we all keep our secrets, progress will stop. (Though I admit that a good clean layout is tedious work that really should be compensated.)

Personally, I have about NO problem with "boutique" builders, making 10 or 20 units. They really run at a loss, when you pay a fair price for the time they put in. Or in the rare case where they actually get positive cash-flow and grow the business, the business then trips over its own growth into bankruptcy (seen that happen many times). If Steve wants to work for $80/unit after expenses, and isn't selling thousands, and isn't screwing his friends, I call it a crazy hobby, not a business. And I've learned not to count profit up-front: projected profits never come true.

In fact, almost nobody "gets rich" in audio. Few companies even live long (though some brands outlive their companies, bought-up by the few conglomerates). Most of us drive old vans, eat mac-n-cheeze, and may be "in DIY" because we can't afford to buy what we want. Even for those of us who "make a living", we could probably make a better living doing something else. Audio is not an occupation, it is an obsession that can sometimes keep you out of starvation. Some are closer to that line than others, but the number of rich audio technicians is roughly zero.

> someone is footing the bill for this place

Possibly only a marginal cash cost. The server and wire is funded for some other task, and the incremental cost of the forum vanishes in the budget. If that operation objects, they can dictate Policy or charge Fees or cut the wire. I don't see a need to make their case for them. Admin Ethan's personal time is being spent freely, I hope he knew what he was getting into. His generous support and time is much appriciated.

> anything that falls out of the DIY arena would be out of bounds

Sounds fine. Except the "LA2 kit" is half and half. It sure is not a finished product. OTOH, it sure is easier than collecting parts. I'm personally "for" it, because the LA2 is a major build and a useful item. This way some home-brew LA2s will get -built-, not just started.

> Profit on these forums can't really be policed.

Quite right.

> how about one rotating banner in the forum that ONLY voted in group DIY members can pay to advertise on?

I would go for one modest ad, IF the Admin wants the spare-change. Maybe "banner", maybe just text-link. Hell: we have Signatures, "vendors" can put a link to their own website there. Because signature-bloat can be a problem, maybe a limit (especially for For-Sale tag-lines). 2 lines, 20 words? "Buy the Bloo LA2 kit _here_! // All parts to build a rack-mount opto-limiter" As long as it does not waste much space (modem-time), I don't mind "vendors" mentioning their product; just take the dealing to email. For non-vendors (and small vendors), we have the Market already. Heck, I don't care if ROSS or ART post a few free ads there, as long as they don't flood the place (and our host does not object).

> if there is any trouble distinguishing between what is a buisness venture and what is a DIY project...that's what we pay the big bucks to moderators for.

Exactly. As a long-time moderator of an old forum with a 20 year policy of "no commercial posts", I had to make that decision (and "pay" was a lousy T-shirt). There is usually no problem deciding who is running a Business and who is just closet-cleaning (or running-off a metal-stamping job to cover his costs for his own copy and some beer).
 

dukasound

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Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
710
Location
Kotor, Montenegro
Hi everyone DIY
This is a great discussion. When I start with learning and making some equpment (unfortunately only LA-2A finished) I ask Jakob can he or anoder guy will sell me a PCB for some DIY he answered that is not point to buy, sell, make a profit, and I understand. I am 48 year old I have a long career and important big children and now my hobby is "science in a employement of music". All time I have a help from Thomas, Jonathan, Jakob, Ron, Michele-Eledanca, Steve, Moby, Lampas and many, many who answered a lot of questions. Noone didnt talk about money. Someone (they will recognize himself) send me some parts, no asking shall I pay. Now I feel, I am in family. I am sorry because I am not in position to help you like you can.
I hope I was not patetic.
PRR excuse me for bad english
Duka
 

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