I'm lost, SPL Goldmike, DIY Gyraf G9, DAV BG-1??

[Maliq]

Again, my last hope is this Forum, let me say 1 thing before I start to ask: I've read and searched (also this Forum) so much about preamps, Building a Gyraf G9, the DAV Bg no1 and much more that it all leaves me total confused again with Headache and a Sour Stomach really..

Ok lets start somewhere.. :-\
I own a SPL Goldmike 9844 since 4 years now, its a good preamp (as far as i can say, i never had the chance to compare it to a colorfull Amps like NEVE, API, SSL, Gyraf, Great River etc stuff like that) and what i like alot about the SPL, its a very very quiet preamp and this is also very important to me.

Why do I mentioned this "quiet thing", because i like to run a whole drumbus, Vocals in mixdown or even a whole mix through it to add some Analog grit, My Mixdown chain then is Focusrite Interface->SPL Goldmike->Soundcraft Spirit Folio 4 20 Mixer (FMR RNLA), then back into the Inputs of my Focusrite. So as you can see, i don't use it only for Recording Vocals or Guitars. So 2 Channels is a must for me.

What I don't like: the SPL can sound kinda Bright, I did some blind A/B test with some recordings through a pretty cheap MP Art Tube, and guess what, the Vocals sounded not that Bright like recording with the SPL Goldmike.. I've tryed to swap the tubes, but also this was not a big difference, still kinda bright, and NO I don't use the Flair Switch at all.. its always OFF cause I like to brighten/adding Air in the Box (UAD Pulteq for example).

So, If I could spend 1000Eur, i would try to get 2 UAD 610, or 2 Used SPL Channel one.. but i can't afford this much..so i ended up reading alot about the DIY Gyraf G9..and thats where my Headache started :-\ :-[

I know how to solder, i know how to desolder.. i know a lil bout caps, and all that, but i'm so addicted that i can't resist to open things up to see whats under the Hood.. and those Lundahl Transformers and 4 Tubes inside the Gyraf made me damn curious, but then again.. I don't have some equipment to meassure things when i would go fo this DIY..I could only do it if there would be a step by step with photos Tread.. like building a model..also i would need a whole list what exactly to order. I only found the PCB's , the Tubes, the switches and the Lundahls.. but the Housing, drilling own holes into it, all the needed caps..cables..resistors ..oh my God :-[ :-X ..the more i read about it the more I'm feeling lost.. so i ended up thinking bout maybe i should try to get a DAV BG nr.1 (about 699Eur).. but then again.. i heard building an own Gyraf G9 would could cost me "only" about 400Eur.

to brake it down... I'm just feeling lost.. what should I do, I guess there is no step by step, picture by picture Topic and how to build an Gyraf G9 plus a Order list of all the Caps, resistors etc for mouser.com ??? I hope someone can help me out..

I checked this page allready and safed all the Schematics and photos from http://www.gyraf.dk/gy_pd/g9/g9pd.htm also the Components List but i don't understand much :-[

Thanks anyway for reading this
Regards

 

[LesPaul]

I would recommend you to build something a bit easier first. The G9 has high voltages, and working with this you should really know what you are doing.

There are a lot of projects out there for beginners. The Green pre or a Bo Hansen DI could be a good place to start. You will learn a lot from your first project, and before you know it you'll have PCB's for 3-4 other projects on the shelf (Like I have) ;D

Beware! This is addictive!

 

[Maliq]

I hear you LesPaul, I'm working on my Tube microphone allready, i guess thats high voltages too...  ???

that beeing sayed, I would need something like this here http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=49758.0

Step by step, picture by picture..otherwise, i would probably do it all wrong, and i'm not sure i guess i spend more then 100Eur on the Green pre..and does it not make more sense to safe the money for a bigger project that could help solving my problem. First and foremost, I'm an artist, love tha stage, then i'm a producer and mixing engineer..so time is an issue, and money too like i sayed.. Thats why i ask: Should i not try to aim on something that could safe my problem right away?? ???

 

[alexc]

I would say try something safer before doing high voltage projects, including mics.

Someone without experience in electronics theory and construction should work on low voltages for some time.
Especially if they are in a hurry.

Nothing vintage about a high voltage shock. It 'shocks' ! Bad 

Leave the tube mics and preamps for later.

Go for some transistor stuff first!

Good luck with it all.

 

[Maliq]

I think they are both dangerous, remember, here in Europe, we run thing on 250V, now you hear me, a noob speaking 

Like i sayed, no matter what I build the 1st problem is: I need to order all the pieces that i need to built for one unit from several different ressources, I guess there's no, "Buy one Kit with the All tha parts you need" and a step by step plan right?! so this makes the first thing allready difficult for me,

Second problem: I need at least all the names of each single piece from cap to resistors to cables to housing etc..even size of the screws i guess..  sure we have mouser and wima here in germany thats good but.. you see my problem

and 3rd: I would need at least some high quality pictures from the front, and bottom of each finished pcb board with all the parts correctly soldered to it, so i can do it exactly the same way. I don't know why a cap is here or there, or why there's shielding, and why there's cable.. i mean i'm not that stupid hahah i might figure a lil bit out but yeah..another problem for me.

I would like to build the whole thing from scratch, without powering it up one time until the whole thing is finished, the case closed.. then power it up, in hope that it all will work (sure i might be dreaming here)..

I'm not much scared of getting hurt, i would never ever power it up when the case is open..i'm more scared i don't know where to start, where to put and solder what..there's no plan just the schematics..but yeah.. i need something to double check before i even start.

 

[abechap024]

why not go the seventh circle audio route??

 

[grubbyliver]

why not go the seventh circle audio route??

This is a good option although OP is in Europe, becomes expensive (although still worth it, in IMO).
Seriously Maliq, building tube gear is not a good idea for a noob. At least build some guitar pedals - anything - and get a bit of experience with how circuits work before attempting something like the G9 or even a tube mic.
There are some really nice preamp projects around here that don't use tubes. Gustav (who sells the G9 pcb's) will have pcb's for the Great River MP2 preamp available soon. Go something transistor based first. If it doesn't work first go and you need to troubleshoot it, you can do so without risking you life.

 

[Maliq]

Thanks for your answers, i guess i stick to my goldmike right now cause i love this piece somehow, maybe there's a way to update it soon..when i know more. Artist with Bigger Names allready love my sound so much that they allready ask me to Mix and sometimes Master their Songs.. so I should be happy. I think I just got addicted to all those Electronics a lil bit too much..and this passion (without knowledge) got me confused always when i look into it. ;D, even when i buy a new piece of Gear..I look under the Hood even before trying it the first time  ;D ;D

Anyway, to gain some knowledge, and something that is sticking around in my Head for month I need to ask you guys .

1: If I want to swap a tube, is it ok when i leave the piece of gear OFF and disconected from the Main power suply, Wall Wart  for 12 hours at least, or does it still store Electricity that long? I always touch the Heating before I open up some gear to "Ground" or "Discharge" myself :

2: Imagine, you got a signal going through a board stacked with Electrolytes, How does is affect the Sound going trough it, I heard the Tolerance level of electrolytes is always way higher then any kind of Film or polyprophylene caps, so do the electrolytes make the sound more Bright, harsh, and not so thick sounding?

3: Imagine you would have a sound going through a Board full of Film and polyprophyle Caps, woud it make the Sound more thick, smooth and less bright, brittle or Harsh? cause always when i see those nice looking Caps my mind tells me, they affect the sound nicely, make it more Thick and smooth sounding!! am I nuts here

4: Is it true that often electrolytes or cermic (Tantalum) Caps are used, because they are cheaper and smaller depending on the value then poly or Film caps? so they safe alot of space and keep cost alil lower?

I hope you guys can really help me cause those questions make me crazy for month seriously.. Thanks for baring with a noob : : :-[

   

 

[alexc]

Hi

1. Tube gear can retain voltage for some time - like a few minutes generally.
    Some gear can retain for longer periods, such as hours, but not usually.

    If you are going to handle tube gear, safety says :

    - wait a few minutes after switching off, 10mins or so
    - unplug from wall socket
    - open up and first check for any high (>25V) voltages with a multimeter

    then 'handle with care' 

PS - this is why I say - gain SOME experience before attempting tube circuits.

2.  Yes electrolytics are generally said to have wider tolerances, more impedance effects and distortion.
    They are smaller for a given capacitance and generally the only option beyond 10uF or so
    Bright, harsh or thick are description that are very open to interpretation, so 'Yes', 'No', 'Maybe' are all correct

    Polypropylene caps and non-polarised electros are usually preferred, where physical size and capacitance required allows

3. 'yes', 'no', 'maybe'. All of the above.  Very open to interpretation. One mans 'thick' is another man's 'thin'
    Possibly. Whatever. All good.

4. Yes. Electros and tants are smaller, cheaper than poly. Probably more distortion and impedance and wider tolerance.

Lots of classic, high $ equipment uses electros, tants, poly caps and all that. It is but one aspect of the whole.

True contentment comes from within. grasshopper. 


----

If you want to make some special stuff that won't kill you or anyone else, make some 500 series stuff with Classic API preamps and other stuff from the White Market.

Keep you busy, save money, express your new passion for electronics and make some great gear.

Later, with the tubes and all that  .

Good luck

 

[Maliq]

thanks Alex, i found a very intresting post about caps, how they sound, what and why they're used in which application and so on, it was an eye opener for me..but of course your answer too.

Yes I'll get a Multimeter, i hope this one is ok http://www.amazon.de/Voltcraft-VC130-DMM-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B003A5TA8U/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1352678906&sr=8-4

Building 500 format equipment would be awesome because they are small, i heard sound very very nice, and its not that much of stuff that i need to put together.. BUT.. the big power supply with the Rack that you need to fit All the 500 series is damn expensive.. if you know a cheap one or even a way to build one yourself..let me know

Thats the Cheapest i've found.. http://www.justmusic.de/de-de/recording/outboard/sonstige-peripherie/J0104983/v-4-rack-500-series-4-space-rack-mit-netzteil.html

475Eur thats about 600$ coughhhhh

 

[alexc]

You are quite right - 500 series has a reasonably steep rack cost, but I think it is an investment for the future. A 10 space unit is not too far off the cost of boxing and powering 3 or 4 19" racks, which is what would be the equivalent.

Plus you get the piece of of mind regarding safety AND you won't worry about PSU issues on your first DIY builds.

Also, the resale value on 500 series stuff is quite good - should you ever want to change,

Should you want to DIY psu, basic mains wiring is easier to understand and make safe than tube PSUs. Make sure you get help from an experienced person if you play with mains electricity!

I think the the DIY route to 500 series is best with ClassicAPI - easy to find on the interwebs.

--------------

Another way to go is using 'wall wart' adapters - there are +/- voltage models of various kinds easy to find for notebooks and printers on ebay.

Cheap, high powered and a variety of voltage/currents. And nice and safe!

I would  be looking at DIY 500 series modules which are superb and reasonable cost
and then rack them yourself with power from a notebook wall wart if you don't want to get a 500 series rack.

Bonus is most kits have nice front panels already done - you don't have to bother with making your own front panels to begin with. You get to focus your efforts on SOUND

A huge variety of great quality DIY here with all the thick sounding capacitors, inductors, transformers you could ever want.

And of course many transistor+transformer units can sound just as 'tube-y' as tube units.
And many tube units can be so clean sounding you wouldn't believe they had tubes at all.

It's all a matter of the particular design - can't really generalise beyond a certain way.


Yes - your meter suggestions look fine - most will do to start with. Get yourself some test leads with alligator clips and mini clips as well.

I warn you though - the DIY route will NOT save you money. It is a journey that can become obsessive and wind up taking all your money and time.

Not so good a for a musician really - better spend your time playing and recording ;D

Good luck


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[daspalme]

Hi!
I just wanted to add, that maybe a summing device is something you could try. Like the API-styled summing amp classic-api offers. I think it's gonna add some character too and maybe it's rather made for your application than a mic pre. (mean the bus mixing thing ) won't be as expensive as a mic pre and way easier to build. You can also find kits for some parts like the 2520 DOAs.
Regards,
Börje  8)