Jazz recording tonight with all my DIY stuff!

[Freddy G]

Hi All,
So this is my big moment in the sun, I'm recording a jazz trio tonight using all my DIY stuff...(mic pres and la2a's)
I have not yet finished my pair of G7s (too bad, would've loved to have them ready)
The trio consists of a grand piano, upright bass and sax. The room is a 60' X 100' hall with 30' ceiling. There are heavy motorized drapes that I can bring in to deaden the room if I wish.
I've got a pair of AKG C414s for the piano, can anyone advise me on what mic placements I might try? I know this is not exactly the forum to ask this...but it's the only real forum that I belong to and I figure I know most of the regulars here and respect thier opinions, so whatcha think guys?
Thanks,
Freddy G

 

[PRR]

No drums???

That's a dream-room.

It isn't fashionable, but I'd be inclined to just put the two 414s in the second row of the audience, 6" to 60" apart, a very natural sound.

If they want a spit-and-rosin recording, then it is just rock-n-roll. Two cardioids a foot over the piano soundboard, listen to a LOT of playing to get a balance of left and right over all the notes the player uses. Mike a foot or three in front of the sax. Remember that a lot of sound is at the keys and reed, not just the bell. We always did acoustic bass with a RE-55 wrapped in a T-shirt and wedged in the bridge. A low-price omni electret lavalier also works great. If the bass is amped, to cover all bases you want a DI on the pickup and a 57/58 on the speaker as well as a mike in the bridge.

On piano: don't be afraid to put your mikes UNDER the soundboard. It sings on both sides. Underneath has less mechanical hammer-clank (but can have more pedal-squeak). In general, unless you need an in-yo-face honkytonk, piano should be miked further away, not closer (but in a trio, leakage soon becomes a problem).

 

[Bluzzi]

414 on grand is great. Try and see if you can have lid removed or opened out of the way. This allows you to place mikes where you want. More leakage though, but that is not a bad thing since its Jazz and live!

good luck and let us know how you made out.

jim

 

[StephenGiles]

Just a thought, It could be worth placing a stereo mike in the audience in order to get the sound of the room, a) if you have one and b) if you have enough spare tracks. You didn't mention what type of recorder you have. It can add a little ambience to the recording if mixed in small quantities
Stephen

 

[TomWaterman]

Hey I hope it goes well Freddy,

if its not too late, what other mics are you using?

An M/S pair (the C414s) in front of the stage would work well for vibe, overall picture and ambience, try the M mic in omni for more room.....if you have enough channels to matrix it on the desk, and the room is good it can sound great. Maybe just a single or spaced pair of omnis in the room if you need the 414s on piano - I love the DPA4006s for this on classical stuff and expect they sound just as awesome on Jazz.

I also like Piano mics spaced inside as opposed to XY, one mic (the low mic) down at the foot of the piano, the full length of the bass stings with the hi mic near to the upper octaves.....can be a bit wide sometimes but very nice. Use cardiod and direct them slightly to the middle, otherwise they'll be a big hole.

Two mics on string bass work really well when I tried it, one near the f-hole about a foot or so away pointed at the bridge and possibly another (small diaphragm) at the neck for slap and click.....

I think the main stereo room pair would be really useful to get the most natural sound.

Just my tuppence
Good luck with it

Cheers Tom

 

[Freddy G]

Thanks for all the great advise guys!
The trio will be hear shortly so I don't have much time to reply, but I will post sound clips later.
Yes PRR...NO DRUMS!
Freddy

 

[asm]

ive used a sm57 pointing down at the bass strings, and a tlm103 for the treble strings. positioned about a foot away pointing down, sounded allright. some people i know go sm57 both ways, dont know about that one.

but with a nice sounding room i would definately go open top on the piano and do a stereo pair, and then maybe one near the piano to mix in for more of a tighter sound.

just an idea.

 

[Category 5]

Try a LD on the body of the bass and a SD up at the top by the nut. Last time I did upriht I used a Rode NT2 on the body and Oktava MC012 just below the nut and the bass sound was awesome. The NT2 was about a foot and a half off, and the Okatava was within a foot.

Shane

 

[TomWaterman]

Hey Freddy,

How did it go man? Let us know......hope it was great!

Cheers Tom

 

[Freddy G]

Hey Tom,
It was great!
I'm going to mix it and then post sound clips and details. Gimme a few days...
Cheers,
Freddy

 

[Freddy G]

Hi All,
Here are some clips of the recording.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~otis1/ and also
http://home.cogeco.ca/~lothar right click on the .wav file and save. Warning...they are large files, 7 or 8 MB
Thanks for the great advice everyone! :sam: :sam:
The piano was recorded with 2 C414s about 1 foot above the strings on the bass and treble side pointed slightly towards the middle (Thanks Tom :winkThe mics were set to cardiod, flat, no pad, into my DIY mic pres (API type circuit) to hard disk. I also used a stereo mic called a "Studio projects LSD2" for the room about fifteen feet in front of and pointed at the trio in an X Y pattern.
Tha sax went thru a Sennheiser 421 rolled off one click from "M", my mic pre, then my LA2A to hard disk.
The bass was mic'ed with an AT 4050 , thru my pre, thru an LA2A
then to hard disk.
These clips are flat with no extra processing other than what was printed.
I'm still playing with the mix levels, and as always in hindsight I've learned some valuable lessons ie. make sure the piano bench is not creaky! :green:

Cheers,
Freddy

 

[rafafredd]

nice recording. I like the sound of the piano.

On the trio, the sax should be more on my face, I think. It feels like it´s away.... Not a matter of level, it´s the timbre instead.

Maybe it will require some processing to get you there. A coloring compressor??? Don´t forget that it´s just IMHO.

 

[rlaury]

Sounds great! Good work.
keep it up

 

[Elk Latham]

I agree. The piano sounded really nice. I'm still curious what the recording device was. :grin:

 

[TomWaterman]

Hey Freddy!!!

Great job mate!

I agree the piano sounds nice - not too wide and well balanced...... The piano stool adds a certain something....... :green: and its not that noticeable when the full band are playing.

I sort of agree with Raf about the sax, maybe its just a bit dark, try a little topend boost?.....you'll have to build a pultec next man!!!!!! I'm sure that would be ideal.

Possibly a touch more room mic also? I don't know, thats just me and I don't know what that mic sounds like.

I'm also curious what you recorded to, converters etc.....whats the "M" pre?

Great stuff though, thanks a lot for posting.

PS also just checked out your guitars - holy cow, awesome!!

Cheers Tom :guinness:

 

[Freddy G]

Thanks Guys,
I recorded to hard drive using a LAYLA 20 bit card.
Tom, the "M" refered to the rollof switch on the 421 mic. There's
"M - S"(music-speech) with 3? points in between.
Hey Raf, thanks I guess I agree about the sax too. I'll work on it.
Freddy

 

[b3groover]

Sax is such a dynamic instrument, a little compression is never a bad idea.

Sounds great, Freddy. What's the name of the first tune? It's driving me nuts!!!! I know it!!!

Argh!

 

[PRR]

> Warning...they are large files, 7 or 8 MB

Sho-nuff big. Don't use WAV for freebie samples: it clogs your server and aint no good for dialup users.

I've taken the liberty of posting MP3s. Even at 192K they are just a meg each, and sound very good,

FreddyG's jazz recordings

Artistically: piano mikes may have been a little far apart: boom and tinkle without rich midrange. That can't be fixed now. (And I've been accused of being midrange-happy, so you might decide to ignore my opinion on that.) It is still a very good solo sound, but when you put it behind a mellow sax the piano should probably be made less-bright. You can also brighten-up the sax as others suggest, but too much treble will make it spitty, while piano is musical even with a heavy top-cut. I'd try that, then think about leveling the sax. The dynamic is good alone, but with the piano chugging along pretty steady the sax sounds like it rises above and falls below the piano when his level changes just a bit. (It may just be this passage.) I might take several dB off his louder toots, then bring the sax up a bit ahead of the piano while the sax is starring. (And of course when the piano stars and the sax is just vamping behind, reverse the balance and maybe shift the EQ just a hair, take some sizzle off the sax when playing backup.)

 

[fum]

Sounds real nice. It's cool to hear something you made sounding great, eh? :grin:


Am I hearing the pads of the sax in there? Almost sounds like someone playin traps =)

ju

 

[mcs]

[quote author="PRR"]I've taken the liberty of posting MP3s. Even at 192K they are just a meg each, and sound very good,

FreddyG's jazz recordings[/quote]
Couldn't you just post the file URLs, so those of us that don't have plugins for everything don't have to open the m3u file in a text editor to find out? :grin:

Here they are, if others need them:
http://headfonz.rutgers.edu/FreddyG/piano.mp3
http://headfonz.rutgers.edu/FreddyG/trio.mp3

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen