JLI-103 Unscientific Impression

[Icantthinkofaname]

Not sure if building one from scratch qualifies as easy/cheap/inexpensive.

Really depends on what you're using. You can a lot of reasonably priced donor bodies, then you're looking at maybe $30-$50 if you go with the Takstar capsule, the components (by which I mean the capacitors and resistors and stuff) and PCB will probably set you like $60, then there's whatever the transformer sets you back which will probably be like $40 too. So you could probably do the build for $250ish depending on the quality of what you use. Yes the modded mic route is cheaper, but you might end up replacing a lot of stuff in it depending on the components used in it. If you use a used Behringer B2 Pro or an iSK BM-600 you can get a really good donor body for $100. If you use the older version of the B2 Pro you could have swappable capsules.

To get in u87 ballpark is relatively easy.

However if you want to nail all the aspects, the exact way it behaves under high spl, headbasket, fet/bias/transformer in respect of harmonic profile under different conditions, body resonances (or absence of these), transformer interraction with transformer coupled preamps, it could easily become never ending game.

All of these are relatively easy to measure in order to know what you are going for, if you have the original. Going by ear is a waste of time.

Under some "normal" conditions, vocal recording, voiceover, acoustic guitar, you will rarely get to the point where any of these really matter. Even though it's measureable, harmonic profile at reasonable level won't be audible no matter what anyone says.

I'd say nail the capsule, make the headbasket non resonant, non reflective, adjust bias/hf response, and as long as the mic doesn't ring like a church bell you are pretty much there. For anything more than that it would only make sense to buy the original, you will spare time and sell at good price once you get tired of it.

I think even buying an existing clone you'd likely still not get everything right if you need it to be completely accurate to a real U87.

I'm not necessarily super interested in having a U87 clone because I've got a C414 B-ULS I feel satisfies the need for a flat LDC, and an AT4050 for a brighter sound. I think if there's a gig where someone is super anal about using a U87 I'd likely need to go into whatever studio they use anyway. (I prefer my SDCs over the LDCs I have and have used anyway)

 

[stridentlinear]

To get in u87 ballpark is relatively easy.

However if you want to nail all the aspects, the exact way it behaves under high spl, headbasket, fet/bias/transformer in respect of harmonic profile under different conditions, body resonances (or absence of these), transformer interraction with transformer coupled preamps, it could easily become never ending game.

Exactly. And I don't believe I've heard a single modded cheapie that gets in the ballpark, so I'm not sure if it's that easy, but I'll take your word for it. I have gotten a few to at least sound good/improved (for what they are), but nah, only a very select few that have ever even gotten in the ballpark to be honest. Of the commercially available variety, I think 3uaudio and Lauten have come pretty close, but not like I've personally auditioned every one of them.

 

[stridentlinear]

(I prefer my SDCs over the LDCs I have and have used anyway)

To me, a km84/184 comes closer to a u87 than any of the u87 "clones" I've heard, because at least it sounds like a Neumann.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Exactly. And I don't believe I've heard a single modded cheapie that gets in the ballpark, so I'm not sure if it's that easy, but I'll take your word for it. I have gotten a few to at least sound good/improved (for what they are), but nah, only a very select few that have ever even gotten in the ballpark to be honest. Of the commercially available variety, I think 3uaudio and Lauten have come pretty close, but not like I've personally auditioned every one of them.

This could be your problem. If you're comparing the mics on different sources they'll be very different sounding, and odds are different vintage U87s sound different. I haven't personally used a vintage U87, but on the same sources with somd EQ I've had luck getting the clones like the AA CM87 to sound just about identical to my ears. I'd certainly say that's in the ballpark, all I did was the 12K area by maybe 6ish dB because the mic lacks the circuitry that does that.

I think you're just letting gear bias affect your perception. Let's use a U87ai as an example because that's still in production. In a blind test I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between a modified AKG P420 made to sound like a U87ai and an actual U87ai. Maybe there a couple specific sources you'd be able to tell with the right placement, but most circumstances they'd probably be incredibly similar if not nearly indistinguishable.

To me, a km84/184 comes closer to a u87 than any of the u87 "clones" I've heard, because at least it sounds like a Neumann.

I don't even know how to respond to that. That's like saying my Oktava MK-012s sound like a U87 because they sound reasonably close to my MKH 8050 which is from Sennheiser which owns Neumann.

 

[stridentlinear]

I think you're just letting gear bias affect your perception. Let's use a U87ai as an example because that's still in production. In a blind test I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between a modified AKG P420 made to sound like a U87ai and an actual U87ai.

I can usually tell with the AKGs because the cheap-sounding grille and body resonance give it away. Unless they've drastically changed those over the past five(ish) years?

I don't even know how to respond to that. That's like saying my Oktava MK-012s sound like a U87 because they sound reasonably close to my MKH 8050 which is from Sennheiser which owns Neumann.

I don't know how to respond to that either. But I can just tell the Neumann sound. It's like clove or cumin. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but I know it when I taste or even smell it.

 

[soliloqueen]

To me, a km84/184 comes closer to a u87 than any of the u87 "clones" I've heard, because at least it sounds like a Neumann.

i've only heard one clone mic that nails the neumann house sound, and it did it by untoward means. it's all acoustics, IME. neumann has registered designs or just good old fashioned trade secrets that make it hard to make a mic sound like a genuine neumann. i've succeeded in duplicating their house sound in private as an experiment a time or two, but i would not be allowed to sell it as a product, even for DIY

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

i've only heard one clone mic that nails the neumann house sound, and it did it by untoward means. it's all acoustics, IME. neumann has registered designs or just good old fashioned trade secrets that make it hard to make a mic sound like a genuine neumann. i've succeeded in duplicating their house sound in private as an experiment a time or two, but i would not be allowed to sell it as a product, even for DIY

Was this that counterfeit TLM 103 that was being sold on AliExpress?

I can usually tell with the AKGs because the cheap-sounding grille and body resonance give it away. Unless they've drastically changed those over the past five(ish) years?





I don't know how to respond to that either. But I can just tell the Neumann sound. It's like clove or cumin. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but I know it when I taste or even smell it.

I feel like the Warm Audo WA-87 and Stam Audio SA-87 are very close. They might not be dead-on, but you'll also find people who say some actual Neumann mics don't sound like Neumanns because it's either not a U87, or it doesn't sound like the specific mic they used.

I can't really comment on the 3U Audio stuff, I liked their CM100 small diaphragm condenser but I didn't end up keeping it, I felt the Oktava MK-012 was better for me, and definitely feels like it's built better. There aren't many 3U Audio vs Neumann samples out there, but the ones I've heard (all from the same person) I feel the 3U stuff gets reasonably close too. I'm basing my opinion on vocals and string instrument recordings, maybe it's different on drums.

 

[stridentlinear]

Was this that counterfeit TLM 103 that was being sold on AliExpress?

I feel like the Warm Audo WA-87 and Stam Audio SA-87 are very close. They might not be dead-on, but you'll also find people who say some actual Neumann mics don't sound like Neumanns because it's either not a U87, or it doesn't sound like the specific mic they used.

Interesting. Will have to check those out. I'm actually surprised at how well the Lauten LA-220 does, but it sometimes veers off in to crazy town. Does the Neumann thing but in an overly-exaggerated way. Kinda' fun though.

 

[AUDIO FREQ]

I took this apart a bit ago, here it is next to a real K103:
View attachment 104826View attachment 104827
I think the thru holes are slightly smaller. Diaphragm may constitute some difference. I believe AYM uses 3 micron film. There are also tuning differences possible. All in all, it's a close clone. It's closer to its original than most other third party capsules available.

I just ordered one of these from JLI yesterday. I wander if the diaphragm distance to the backplate is the same. Probably no way of telling? I imagine the 3 micron vs 6 micron of the original is a big difference also. But for 50 bones...less than a tank of gas in my mid size car...I can't complain

 

[AUDIO FREQ]

Well I got mine in, along with the dc dc hex board and alice single channel board and put it all together. Added the pair of RFI caps at the xlr pins... it surprisingly isn't as bright as my TLM 103. BUT...apon further inspection the cap seems to have a little imperfections near the center terminal. Picture for reference...mylar seems to be a tad warped where the screw went in...tried to loosen the screw slightly to see if it helps, but nope.

Im guessing this affects the sound?

I do notice a bit of white noise in the signal...a tad more than my other microphones TLM 103, Microhpone Parts MP V57, Luke Audio Y59, etc...

I wouldve thought with the 80v polarization from the dc dc hex board + alice single channel pcb, the sensitivity would be high, and I would be able to use very low gain and minimize any self noise, but I guess I was wrong. Still, not a bad mic for 100 bucks.