L251 Capsule - anyone use one? Also CK12 options in general.

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johnsonic

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So, I've been hit with the mic with ck12 building bug. I have a matachung with a Beesneez capsule, have an OPR capsule on the way for a beesneez circuit.
I did send @Tim Campbell an email a six weeks back and know he'll respond when he know he can fit me in so not going to bug him. Also have a Dachman capsule in a C12 clone that just clearly isn't in the same league as the Beesneez. The BCK12 sounds fantastic. Have a friend using it right now who is demanding to buy my mic!

The only immediate CK12 style capsule available seems to be Lawson in their L251 (I'd be using it in a 251 clone, so sweet?). I'd love to get a third top quality manufacturer in the mix. SO - anyone put one in a build? Impressions?

Here's my survey of CK12 producers and current situation, if you have other avenues to get them, let us know! Looking for number 3.

MBHO — No capsule sales as confirmed by their US distributor.
Telefunken Elektroakustik — Cannot find where to buy
Beesneez — Excellent, and available
Korby — korbyaudio.com is down. Not sure if they're still in business.
Josephson — No mention of capsule sales. Email is out to them.
Heiserman — Pausing HK12 sales
Lawson — L251 is available for sale
Shannon Rhodes — Looks like he ghosted based on gearslutz posts?
Upton — I think capsules are available? No email, texted and called. Will continue calling.
OPR — Ordered a capsule when available. Now shows as out of stock.
SPA — Looks like he ghosted based on gearslutz posts?
Campbell Transmitter — Email in and will celebrate when I get in the queue.
ADK - Looks to be available, branded 3z-12d

NOTE: Updated to include ADK.
 
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The ck12 capsule is a moving target in my opinion because of the so many variations of the originals. I have heard very bright and airy 251s and kinda dark ones that sounded closer to a 47 than a c12.
As far as current production ones I have tried Tim Campbell, beesneez, haun and maiku. The Tim Campbell is the brightest and more “scooped” one with great reach and 3D image. I could never get used to the high end of this capsule…always too bright for my taste. Of course it’s a great capsule and others love it..highly subjective.
The haun is my favorite, darker and more reedy but with enough air and not sibilant at all.
The beesneez sounds very big in the low mids but it sounds a little muffled to me. Very bold sound though.
Maiku is very balanced overall but doesn’t quite have the 3 dimensionality of the previous choices. It’s very nice sounding though and smooth…creamy.
Again all this is subjective and very personal
 
I agree - it's very hard to say anything "in general" about the CK12 in terms of frequency balance. There was a wide variation in the original version as well - which makes it really hard for anyone trying to replicate the response of any one specimen of CK12 - they will always run into people that claim that it sounds nothing like their favorite 251..

I know Tim has solved this by selecting a (original, AKG) reference capsule that most customers agree is a specially good-sounding specimen, then matching every and all capsule built to match this exactly. This has the interesting side effect that if you have a different ideal or some other variation CK12 that you prefer, Tim is able to make an identical twin for it (!!) - providing he has the time for it..

To me, it makes almost no sense to talk about what a CK12 sounds like - I feel that the family trait, the common thing that connects them all, is their ability to take EQ in a non-obtrusive way - that is, you can eq them to sound more or less like each other without messing up their basic sound

/Jakob E.
 
So, I've been hit with the mic with ck12 building bug. I have a matachung with a Beesneez capsule, have an OPR capsule on the way for a beesneez circuit.
I did send @Tim Campbell an email a six weeks back and know he'll respond when he know he can fit me in so not going to bug him. Also have a Dachman capsule in a C12 clone that just clearly isn't in the same league as the Beesneez. The BCK12 sounds fantastic. Have a friend using it right now who is demanding to buy my mic!

The only immediate CK12 style capsule available seems to be Lawson in their L251 (I'd be using it in a 251 clone, so sweet?). I'd love to get a third top quality manufacturer in the mix. SO - anyone put one in a build? Impressions?

Here's my survey of CK12 producers and current situation, if you have other avenues to get them, let us know! Looking for number 3.

MBHO — No capsule sales as confirmed by their US distributor.
Telefunken Elektroakustik — Cannot find where to buy
Beesneez — Excellent, and available
Korby — korbyaudio.com is down. Not sure if they're still in business.
Josephson — No mention of capsule sales. Email is out to them.
Heiserman — Pausing HK12 sales
Lawson — L251 is available for sale
Shannon Rhodes — Looks like he ghosted based on gearslutz posts?
Upton — I think capsules are available? No email, texted and called. Will continue calling.
OPR — Ordered a capsule when available. Now shows as out of stock.
SPA — Looks like he ghosted based on gearslutz posts?
Campbell Transmitter — Email in and will celebrate when I get in the queue.
I'd probably go with OPR or Beesneez myself because I know they'll tune their CK12 capsules for you. I didn't get a response when I tried asking the other manufacturers of CK12 capsules. Ben at Beesneez is very quick to reply if you email. I'm definitely interested in hearing a sample of the OPR capsule and what you think.
The ck12 capsule is a moving target in my opinion because of the so many variations of the originals. I have heard very bright and airy 251s and kinda dark ones that sounded closer to a 47 than a c12.
As far as current production ones I have tried Tim Campbell, beesneez, haun and maiku. The Tim Campbell is the brightest and more “scooped” one with great reach and 3D image. I could never get used to the high end of this capsule…always too bright for my taste. Of course it’s a great capsule and others love it..highly subjective.
The haun is my favorite, darker and more reedy but with enough air and not sibilant at all.
The beesneez sounds very big in the low mids but it sounds a little muffled to me. Very bold sound though.
Maiku is very balanced overall but doesn’t quite have the 3 dimensionality of the previous choices. It’s very nice sounding though and smooth…creamy.
Again all this is subjective and very personal
Have you tried the OPR capsule?
I agree - it's very hard to say anything "in general" about the CK12 in terms of frequency balance. There was a wide variation in the original version as well - which makes it really hard for anyone trying to replicate the response of any one specimen of CK12 - they will always run into people that claim that it sounds nothing like their favorite 251..

I know Tim has solved this by selecting a (original, AKG) reference capsule that most customers agree is a specially good-sounding specimen, then matching every and all capsule built to match this exactly. This has the interesting side effect that if you have a different ideal or some other variation CK12 that you prefer, Tim is able to make an identical twin for it (!!) - providing he has the time for it..

To me, it makes almost no sense to talk about what a CK12 sounds like - I feel that the family trait, the common thing that connects them all, is their ability to take EQ in a non-obtrusive way - that is, you can eq them to sound more or less like each other without messing up their basic sound

/Jakob E.
Yeah, they measure all over the place and according to AKG when they wrote the marketing material for the C414 TLII which has a capsule that's supposed to be based on the C12 sound, the presence boost should be +6 dB, but then you have mics with the same capsule as the C12 tuned to be darker like +3-4 dB. You also have companies like Austrian Audio that talk about the brass ring CK12 and act like they have an accurate recreation even though they have a ceramic mounted capsule that isn't tuneable. They say they built their capsule "to the same critical dimensions".
 
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Great feedback! Am wanting to have a ck12 smorgasboard and can't wait until my OPR arrives. I'm asking about the L251 in that it's really spendy, but have not seen anyone post with direct experience with them.

Does anyone have experience with or a test recording of the Lawson L251 capsule?
 
Well, the MBHO modular head with CK12 style capsule is still a product. It isn’t “voiced” exactly like a vintage CK12 or the even the CK12 capsules they make for others, but you could always buy the head and use the capsule inside.
 
I'm definitely interested in hearing a sample of the OPR capsule and what you think.
Me too! It's on the way and am excited to use it. Was actually thinking I might put connectors on the capsule wires for easy change outs. Am super interested in how capsules work with the circuit they're in. Which is why I'd love some input on the L251 capsule.

Once I build the 251 I'll have a C12 and a 251 in a HT-11A body, so would be wicked easy to swap an OPR for the Beesneez. My third mic (C12) is beesneez lower-end DIY body, but would still be helpful in that I wouldn't need to solder.
 
I'd probably go with OPR or Beesneez myself because I know they'll tune their CK12 capsules for you. I didn't get a response when I tried asking the other manufacturers of CK12 capsules. Ben at Beesneez is very quick to reply if you email. I'm definitely interested in hearing a sample of the OPR capsule and what you think.

Have you tried the OPR capsule?

Yeah, they measure all over the place and according to AKG when they wrote the marketing material for the C414 TLII which has a capsule that's supposed to be based on the C12 sound, the presence boost should be +6 dB, but then you have mics with the same capsule as the C12 tuned to be darker like +3-4 dB. You also have companies like Austrian Audio that talk about the brass ring CK12 and act like they have an accurate recreation even though they have a ceramic mounted capsule that isn't tuneable. They say they built their capsule "to the same critical dimensions".
 
take it from me because I’ve had every CK 12 capsule you can imagine plus I got a hold of a vintage 414 EB with a real authentic brass capsule I will tell you this the a DKC 12 capsule is the closest for $350 you’re not gonna find a better capsule I’ve had Tim’s CT12 seems to be over bright I did like Tim’s capsule in a Flea C12 that I got a hold of but it could be the circuit the best capsule is the a ADK12. Heiserman made an incredible CK12 capsule but he has stopped due to supply chain shortages and his 251 mic coming out he’s concentrating on that but I’m telling you get a hold of the a ADK CK12 capsule. you will not be disappointed
 
I'd probably go with OPR or Beesneez myself because I know they'll tune their CK12 capsules for you. I didn't get a response when I tried asking the other manufacturers of CK12 capsules. Ben at Beesneez is very quick to reply if you email. I'm definitely interested in hearing a sample of the OPR capsule and what you think.
@Icantthinkofaname - I got my OPR a while back and plugged it into a donor mic that has a c12 circuit. Holds its own with the beesneez for sure! Posted the comparisons here: Twenty mic comparisons

You can look for NOS cardioid, and JDF cardioid (or file names `NOS-Norm_01 C.wav` and `JDF-Norm_01 C.wav`).
 
I’ve had Tim’s CT12 seems to be over bright

..you've probably tried one that were made to some customer specification - some customers want them really bright, possibly because their "favorite reference" are overly bright, leading them to believe that exactly that capsule is "right"..

/Jakob E.
 
I agree with others in this thread. I don’t understand the hype surrounding Campbell’s capsule. I too have always found it way too bright and much prefer Hauns. Neither Josephson or Upton would sell direct. So I had already ordered a pair from Beesneez whose K7 is great. I’ve also bought a pair of old 414’s to harvest and have some of the Chinese Xingde samples coming. That should make it interesting…..
 
Paul,

This is starting to look like you're directly attacking Tim's business, isn't it?

In an earlier thread where I tried to mop up your differences, it became clear that you "always" heard his capsule only once, in some unspecified and undisclosed microphone or setup that you couldn't care to describe in further detail - and still you insist on "polluting" public opinion with "feeling that it is too bright and thin"

I'm getting a feeling that this is on purpose - please help me prove that I'm wrong

/Jakob E.
 
As far as Upton goes, I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago. He’s not interested in selling capsules, only has the resources to build his own mics.
 
I think at some point Flea also made a CK12 replica (FK12) with their early versions of Flea12 then they switched to CT12 of @Tim Campbell. anybody here have had experienced for both FK12 and CT12?
 
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My hope is always that the fill the world with wonderful music they have recorded with them :)

I was wondering this because I regularly receive expensive microphones for repair from people who record themselves in a bedroom. (They probably think: if it doesn't sound good, at least it's not the microphone :) ...)
 

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