Leslie 122A noise

[jrmintz]

Hi All,

I was recording a Hammond through a Leslie 122A a few weeks ago. I used two SM-57s on the top and an RE-20 on the bottom. I had a horrible buzzing on one side of the top. It couldn't have been acoustic because I didn't hear it on the other mics, so I'm guessing it had to do with the servo-motor being on that side. My questions are:

1. Is this something that just moving the mics back a foot or so would fix?

2. Are dynamic mics more or less susceptible to the interference? Would condensors have the same problem?

3. Is there any point in trying to shield the motor? I haven't been inside the Leslie to see how it's laid out, but if I glued some mu-metal to the inside of the box where the motor is would that help?

Thanks, :thumb: :thumb:

 

[pucho812]

what a joy micing a leslie is. There are so many ways to do it. Describe the buzzing sound. was it in the mic? how where the mics placed? was the niose leslie mechnical? go into a bit more detail.

Last time I miced a leslie I used to u-87's on top and an re-20 on the bottom. I had the 87's in an X/Y and it sounded real nice. very plesent. The rock band I am working on now is going to be using an organ on one of the songs we are finishing up. I love the sound of a good hammond and leslie. :twisted: :grin: :twisted: :grin:

 

[amorris]

i would think that if it were the motor you would hear it change as the player went through his motions. a constant buzz would suggest a bad cable or channel to me.

 

[Samuel Groner]

It is much cheaper to shield the mic than the motor! Dynamic mics are good @ detecting magnet fields due to the step-up transformer. Using a different angle may proof more effective than distance.

I think there was a thread about ribbon mic hum pick-up - basically the same thing.

Samuel

 

[Milkmansound]

yes, leslies rule. These days I find that the leslie is more important than the Hammond even. I mean, even one of those digital hammonds sound pretty damn good out of a real leslie.

I used to have a 700 solid state leslie, the one with that crazy mercury switch in it - basically they decided to put a speaker INSIDE of the lower rotor, and Don Leslie invented a rotating speaker contact! The tremolo effect on that thing went down to 20hz!

I sold it months ago - however I still have my Fender Vibratone rotating guitar cab, and I just finished completely restiring it after my place burned down.

This had nothing to do with the question. Sorry, but I am another person who can talk about the leslie speaker all friggin day and will take any opportunity to do so.

 

[Underthebigtree]

My gigging Leslie 122 has an SM57 permanently mounted near the upper rotor, and an Audix kick drum mic permanently mounted near the lower. They terminate on XLR's at the outside of the cabinet, so no sound guy can ever say "oh, we don't have enough microphones" - they just plug me in to the board and away we go.

There are no induced hum problems at all, and these mics are much closer to the guts than yours were. My guess is that the problem is something else.

And to jump in on a tangent, I agree that the current generation digital Hammond XK-3 sounds close enough to the real thing when run through a Leslie to be a reasonable replacement for gigging purposes. But something that is rarely talked about within this context is performance practice. The Hammond is a complex instrument, with many switches, knobs, and settings that subtly inform the sound. Most importantly, the pair of manuals have a specific feel that is very different from a synth or piano action, that contribute strongly to the evolution of organ performance. For example, the Jimmy Smith single note machine gun sound can really only be pulled off on the real thing - there is not enough bounce in a clone to meet your thumb and middle finger correctly as they rapidly trill the note. Two manuals are also critical to the sound, at least for jazz, as one constantly switches between sounds, or plays support material on the lower manual while soloing on the upper.

To that end, I lug a professionally chopped Hammond A-100 to every gig. The internal preamp has been replaced with a Trek solid state amp, but other than that and missing the foot pedals, it's 225 lbs of the real deal. In my opinion, the audience appreciates it, and can hear the difference. And I'm far more comfortable playing the real thing.

Tangent over. Sorry, which forum was this again?

Nick

 

[SSLtech]

[quote author="Milkmansound"]I used to have a 700 solid state leslie, the one with that crazy mercury switch in it - basically they decided to put a speaker INSIDE of the lower rotor, and Don Leslie invented a rotating speaker contact![/quote]
Not quite true.

It's a Mercotac. Not a mercuty switch, but a pair of concentric mercury pools to maintain noiseless contact on a pair of conductors. Not invented by Don Leslie as far as I know, just purchased and used for the job.

Mercotacs are still made and sold today: www.mercotac.com

Keith

 

[jrmintz]

The sound definitely wasn't acoustic or mechanical - it was a loud electronic buzz only in the top sm-57 on the left-hand side as you look at the front of the Leslie. This is also a 122A, not a 122. We changed everything on that side - mic, cable, mic box channel and channel on the ssl. No difference. I didn't try a condensor mic, though. I also didn't try moving the mic farther back. There was a lot going on and we had to get moving, so we went with one mic on top and one on the bottom, which sounded great.

Nobody's ever experienced this?

 

[Milkmansound]

huh, the literature I read regarding the 700 stated that Leslie invented that device - oh well. Live and learn.

 

[SSLtech]

Well, he might indeed be correctly credited with the first use of it in a loudspeaker... That wouldn't surprise me.

Keith

 

[Scodiddly]

Did you have one of the Leslies with the reverb option, maybe? They put an extra amp in the top left (left as seen from the back) and had a couple of 6x9 speakers in the sides of the cabinet. That extra amp could have put a transformer right next to your SM-57.

 

[pucho812]

Could it have been mic cable related noise where the cable was picking it up in distance to the leslie?

Keith,
I am plan on using your B-format, two fig 8's and an omni, to mic a leslie on this rock project I am currently recording. Well that will be done the same session we are to do a leslie on one of the songs. :twisted:

 

[jrmintz]

[quote author="Scodiddly"]Did you have one of the Leslies with the reverb option, maybe? [/quote]

Nope, plain old b-flat 122A. Next time I use it I'll have to spend more time checking out what's going on. I'm pretty sure it's about the proximity of the mic to the tweeter motor. I don't think it was cable-related because we swapped out cables and I ran them directly away from the mic, not down the side of the Leslie.

:thumb:

 

[nacho459]

My go to on Leslie cabs is 2 SM57's and a D12 on the bottom, I've never had this problem.

 

[jrmintz]

I think this might be an issue with just the 122A alone. I have a friend who encountered the same thing once and I was wondering if anyone else has, but apparently not.

Oh well....

 

[b3groover]

[quote author="SSLtech"]Well, he might indeed be correctly credited with the first use of it in a loudspeaker... That wouldn't surprise me.

Keith[/quote]

I'm pretty sure he invented it. This is from a website with some of his patents on it:

http://www.hammond-leslie.info/DonLesliesPatents/3014192_mercury_slip_ring_assem.pdf

And from the Mercotac website:

Mercotac®, Inc. was founded in 1978 to manufacture unique, high quality, low cost rotating electrical connectors. The original design was actually conceived decades before in order to provide a superior high fidelity connection to spinning Leslie organ speakers.

And then there's this:

Mercotac
Mr. Timothy Leslie, President
6195 Corte Del Cedro Ste 100
Carlsbad, CA 92009-1549




As for the buzzing noise, I've never heard of such a thing. I've used all different types of mics on a Leslie cabinet, at various distances and never had one of them hum. Did you swap mics?

 

[Milkmansound]

Don Leslie was the man after all... wasn't he also one of the first to get a solid state amplifier to sound decent as well? I feel like I read that somewhere as well.

 

[SSLtech]

Dude... the man just went up in my esteem even further!

I stand (sit) corrected! -I was under the impression that he re-applied an existing product!

Keith

 

[Milkmansound]

either way - thanks for posting that link. My mind has been filled with a DIY mini leslie ever since seeing those. I think a small solid state amp with 2 speakers on a spinning wheel will sound kinda cool. Kind of like something you'd see on a tower at an airport - doppler.

Anyway, I wonder if that company will sell just 1 switch - and how much it costs. Maybe I can BS them and get a free sample.

 

[b3groover]

I might have a mercotac switch lying around. I took apart a Leslie that used one because I've never been a fan of the 6x9 mounted in a rotating drum. I'll have a look-see tomorrow.