louder headphones

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pucho812

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trying to get more volume from our headphones at the studio.

The headphones we mainly use are audio technica m-50's

we have a private cue system that aside from headphone out on each mixer, also has a line out. We currently are experimenting with using the line out to feed more headphones from the same mix.
We played with an AKG hp12u the other day and it worked but it wasn't nearly as loud as expected.

The AKG is rated at 680 mW per channel into 32 ohm the m50's are rated at 38 ohms and handle a max of 1.6W.
By all accounts should be more then loud enough yet it didn't feel that way.

Maybe I am just old and it needs to be louder.

Any suggestions?
 
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If the volume in the headphones is too low but not distorted, it most likely means that the input line level signal in the headphone amplifier is not enough for the headphone amplifier (with its gain) to give maximum output voltage and rated maximum power.
BTW, it seems to me that the maximum power for the ATH50 is 1.6W, not mW.
 
Sony MDR-V6/MDR-7506 are a bit more efficient than most headphones , 106db/mW compared to 99db for the ATH-M50 ,that means less chance of the driving amp running out of steam on peaks . A lot depends on the levels involved, a drummer or guitarist will often require more volume in the cans, a vocalist or acoustic instrument player wont usually need anywhere near that volume .

If you want to stay with the headphones you have maybe looking at the a more powerful amp might be best , even short term overloads can really throw a performer off , then again using a power amp to drive phones will give loads of head room but if not used judiciously or in conjunction with limiters can do damage . The BBC has a very strict policy regarding headphones and exposure to loud sounds , they incorporate a passive limiter in the cable for the good of their staff and guests . Most recording studios dont seem to worry much about customers or staff being exposed to loud sounds. I often use a small tube amp to power my headphones , two triode connected EL84's in single ended , no feedback , gives an output of around 1watt with a very gentle overload on the peaks , headphone amps with op amps suplemented by transistors at the output often distort in a very ugly manner ,which can cause fatigue in the ears of the artist and ultimately poor performances .
 
If the volume in the headphones is too low but not distorted, it most likely means that the input line level signal in the headphone amplifier is not enough for the headphone amplifier (with its gain) to give maximum output voltage and rated maximum power.
BTW, it seems to me that the maximum power for the ATH50 is 1.6W, not mW.
Correct. it was written as 1600mW on the website. A type on my part
 
Id run a stereo tube amp of a few watts off the mixer main outs and distribute it around the studio , anyone who can't get to grips with the cue system reverts to main mix , or where higher headphone drive levels are required.

Loud sounds dont get quieter the older we get , just the backround noise increases.
 
1.6W into 32 ohms requires a level of +20dBu (7.7volts rms which is 20 volts peak to peak). You really need a small power amplifier to drive these phones and it looks like you will need on per headset.

680mW into into 32 ohms is still more than +15dBu and to drive that level into 32 ohms will require a small power amplifier per headset.

Cheers

Ian
 
I use a 4 ohm secondary to drive the 64 ohm Sonys from a trioded EL84 per channel , of course it only develops a fraction of a watt into the load.
Calculate the SPL of a 106db/mw headphone driver getting a full watt of power , thats crazy loud.
 
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This is the reason why I have built a special headphone amplifier, consisting of 16 small stereo amplifiers. (OpAmps followed by PNP/NPN transistors.) Each headphone has its own volume control and they go so loud, that even a deaf musician can't turn the volume knob fully open! :)
 
we have a private cue system that aside from headphone out on each mixer, also has a line out. We currently are experimenting with using the line out to feed more headphones from the same mix.
We played with an AKG hp12u the other day and it worked but it wasn't nearly as loud as expected.
What level is coming from this line out? At what impedance? And it probably has a current limit...?

As an example, assuming a 0dBu level and a source impedance of 100 ohms, connecting a 32r headphone results in 1.17 mW, which is admittedly quite low for studio usage.
You need an amp with low output Z.
 
seems to be that way.... Still testing and experimenting

In that case I would say measure the level feeding the cue system and then the line out level of the cue system. If the line out is lower that's probably the issue, if they are the same then the issue is probably the secondary headphone amplifier.
 
In that case I would say measure the level feeding the cue system and then the line out level of the cue system. If the line out is lower that's probably the issue, if they are the same then the issue is probably the secondary headphone amplifier.
Is there a secondary amp? I thought it was just a direct connection of a headphone on the line out...
 
I hear this complaint quite often from studios I work in, old school systems used a 100w(more or less) stereo power amp with a 8 ohm resistor in series on the + out of the amp channels to avoid direct shorts across the amp(happened more often that you might think), headphone boxes usually had speaker pad type pot for each headphone output at the box, they also had a mono/stereo switch so it could be used as 2 mono mixes or 1 stereo mix...this sort of system provides more than enough headroom.
These days I suggest that such a system should be installed in addition to the multi channel rigs I see everywhere, that way a drummer in a loud band has lots of volume in the earscrews...system can also be used to drive studio monitors when not being used for headphones.
 
I'm not sure, but I thought the line out was feeding another amp. Is it actually line out straight to headphones?
Abstract from pucho's #1 post:
"we have a private cue system that aside from headphone out on each mixer, also has a line out. We currently are experimenting with using the line out to feed more headphones from the same mix."
 
Abstract from pucho's #1 post:

Yes, but there was also mention of a secondary amp in other posts and pucho didn't say it wasn't so. So maybe some clarification is needed.

Plugging 32 ohm headphones into a line out doesn't make sense, as some struggle with even 600 ohm. It would also be rather distorted when you crank it due to lack of current drive. There was no mention of that, only a lack of volume. So my assumption was that it wasn't a direct connection.
 
Ok guys sorry for a delayed reply.
each cue mixer has a headphone amp. It also has line level out in stereo. We tried the line level out feeding an Akg headphone amp model hp12 u. It didn’t seem loud enough…
 

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