louder headphones

[abbey road d enfer]

Was it simply not loud enough with the volume cranked up? Or was is clipping too soon?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Headphone distribution is a pretty old studio issue.

Old school solution was to repurpose a modest sized power amp for a dedicated cue system. Series build out resistors were routinely wired into the headphone jacks so a shorted can wouldn't drag down the entire system level. IIRC 22 ohms was a popular build out resistance. A higher power amp could support larger build out resistances.

==

Back last century I designed a headphone amp that drove the cans differentially for more signal swing from opamp voltage rails. I don't recall exact details but I think I drove the sleeve of the headphone jack with (L+R), the tip and ring were driven with (L-R) and -(L-R) or something like that to generate 2L and 2R.

JR

 

[pucho812]

Was it simply not loud enough with the volume cranked up? Or was is clipping too soon?

at full was clean as a whistle, no clipping, but not loud enough of a whistle

 

[JohnRoberts]

The inspiration for my headphone amp (HB-1) with 2x voltage swing, came from a recording session when between takes I was out in the room between takes and heard the drummer's cans... They were playing so loud I could hear them from across the room.

Part deaf drummer, and part loud stage wash in use. Dudley (the drummer now RIP) liked my hotter headphone amp.

JR

 

[moamps]

at full through was clean as a whistle, no clipping, but not loud enough of a whistle

Did you maybe try to increase the input line signal to the headphone amplifier as I already suggested in post 2?

 

[abbey road d enfer]

at full was clean as a whistle, no clipping, but not loud enough of a whistle

It means either the line level is too low, or the hp amp is not sensitive enough. Checking the level coming from the line out should not be too difficult.

 

[Whoops]

It means either the line level is too low, or the hp amp is not sensitive enough. Checking teh level coming from teh line out should not be too difficult.

I was going to say exactly the same

 

[calendarsts]

The easiest, but at the same time, the most expensive way is to buy good headphones. You can't do anything with a cheap model. After all, as a rule, the problem lies in them. However, if you have something more or less high-quality, you probably do not use them at full capacity. Last week I bought myself productz.com. by the way, If you connect headphones to a desktop computer or laptop via a 3.5mm jack, then the problem is solved by buying a separate sound card. Built-in sound in most motherboards of low quality

 

[abbey road d enfer]

The easiest, but at the same time, the most expensive way is to buy good headphones. You can't do anything with a cheap model.

IMO, assessing quality as a function of price is not a good metric.
ATHM50 is not particularly cheap. It's one of my favourite HP's. I once decided that I needed a true high-quality expensive HP. I ended up with an AKG K701. I don't like it as much as the M50.

Most quality hp's have a sensitivity ranging between 99 and 106dBspl@1mW, nothing that a decent hp amp can't deal with.
It turns out in most cases, headphones failure to deliver spl comes from an inadequate amp or signal chain.

Anyway, in a studio environment, sound quality is not the only decisive parameter. Comfort is paramount. You can't get good performance from musicians who complain about having their head pressed.
Price is also very important, since cans get damaged and also have a tendency to evaporate (like DI boxes and mic cables).

For a long time I used ATHM40's, which have excellent sound quality at a reasonable price. I had to put them at rest because the ear pads would disaggregate and leave the bearer full of microplastic debris; ladies in particular would complain.

 

[Tubetec]

A headphone amp will clip sooner or later ,if it clips ugly enough ,the talent ends up with its head in a sling We had a Rain Hp system in the studio I worked , it was bullshit into lower sensitivity cans when drummers or high level guitarists used it . Many of the good engineers used a standard integrated hifi power amp via the HP jack out to power the talents foldback . Maximise headroom or allow a smaller tube amp give over easy distortion . Piss weak H/P amps are for amateurs .

 

[Brian Roth]

An article from a friend I've known since the 1970's:

http://uneeda-audio.com/phones.htm
Rick authored that in 1998, but "physics are physics".

Bri

 

[MicMaven]

had to put them at rest because the ear pads would disaggregate and leave the bearer full of microplastic debris; ladies in particular would complain.

I purchase replacement pads on eBay for between $5 and $15 - the less expensive models are like the original, but last longer as they are made of PU leather, and the more expensive models are PU leather with soft, but thick memory foam... very luxurious and comfortable. I buy them for all my headphones of various models, shapes, and sizes. There are replacement pads costing much more, but they are no better, just come with a fancy brand name and price tag to match.

I concur with your other comments about headphones.

I sold my ATH-M50 headphones because they were too dark and thick on the lower frequencies - but they are super durable, comfortable, and overall very musical. I replaced them with the ATH-M40 model which is "flatter" and more analytical with even temper across the entire spectrum ... but, alas, I sold them, because they were a pain the keester to put on - they fold up flat, and the earphone receivers were always twisted, turned and flipped every time I went to put them on - drove me nuts, but I liked the sound. The M50 model is extremely popular for its sonic profile.

As for driving them ... I would think 750 mw to 1 w would be sufficient. That is all the popular headphone amps seem to provide to the "audiophile" headphone crowd. Line level ... not enough juice. But a LOT of popular headphone amps provide a mere 850 mw. A recent Shiit model specifies this power out: Power output is 1500mW/channel into 32 ohms, 1000mW/channel into 50 ohms, 400mW/channel into 300 ohms, 200mW/channel into 600 ohms.

A RANE Corporation white paper says:

headphone manufacturers specify a “sensitivity” rating for their products that is very similar to loudspeaker sensitivity ratings. For loudspeakers, the standard is to apply 1 watt and then measure the sound pressure level (SPL) at a distance of 1 meter. For headphones, the standard is to apply 1 milliwatt (1 mW = 1/1000 of a watt) and then measure the sound pressure level at the earpiece (using a dummy head with built-in microphones). Sensitivity is then stated as the number of dB of actual sound level (SPL) produced by the headphones with 1 mW of input; headphone specifications commonly refer to this by the misleading term “dB/mW.” What they really mean is dB SPL for 1 mW input.

Think about these sensitivity definitions a moment: headphone sensitivity is rated using 1/1000 of a watt; loudspeaker sensitivity is rated using 1 watt. So a quick rule-of-thumb is that you are going to need about 1/1000 as much power to drive your headphones as to drive your loudspeakers since both of their sensitivity ratings are similar (around 90- 110 dB SPL). For example, if your hi-fi amp is rated at 65 watts, then you would need only 65 mW to drive comparable headphones. (Actually you need less than 65 mW since most people don’t listen to their loudspeakers at 1 meter.) And this is exactly what you find in hi-fi receivers—their headphone jacks typically provide only 10-20 mW of output power.

Take another moment and think about all those portable tape players. They sound great, and loud. Why, you can even hear them ten feet away as the teenage skateboarder that ran over your foot escapes.

Power output? About 12 mW.

Above -- exerpt from a RANE Corp white paper on headphone amps.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Keep in mind wrt sensitivity in terms of power, headphone impedance comes in sundry impedances, so high impedance cans need more volts.

A common complaint about typical console master section headphone amps is that they don't get loud enough. As Rick Chen observed in the article Brian linked to, console headphone amps are limited to typical +/- 15V rails.

We have discussed solutions before.

JR