Mic pre on 2bus question

[WillDuc]

Hi,

I've read multiples times on running colorful mic pre on 2bus and its benefits. I'd like to have an audio example to better judge what the effect is. Like, if someone has a pair of VP28 or other high quality mic pre, and could run a mix of mine in their mic pre i'd be grateful. It would help m e figure a couple of things out.

Thanks !

 

[ruffrecords]

I had to look up 2bus. Apparently is means something like master bus, or mix bus or stereo bus. In which case "running a colourful mic pre on 2bus " makes little sense. Can you be more specific about what you mean or at least link to where you have read about this?

Cheers

ian

 

[WillDuc]

Hi Ioan,

It simply means running out of your DAW into a pair of let's say neve73 and than back ITB to impair some of their sonic quality, giving your mix some analog goodness, mojo, or whatever you want to call it.

I know lots of people do it. It's kinda similar to analog summing, but only on your master bus. I know some people use it to push the preamp into soft clipping for mastering purposes too.

Yeah, 2bus means master bus in this case, you are correct.

Cheers,

 

[Newmarket]

One thing I'm not sure of on this in general. What sort of levels do people run into the preamp and where/how do they adjust that ? Basically how is it gain staged.

 

[WillDuc]

One thing I'm not sure of on this in general. What sort of levels do people run into the preamp and where/how do they adjust that ? Basically how is it gain staged.

Without going too technical here, if you have mic pre that has line mode then you can feed the mic pre directly from your DAW. If the mic pre only accepts mic level signal, then you will have to attenuate the signal prior to hitting the preamp. If not, it is going to go into clipping real fast. I was thinking 12 to 20dB but it seems that's it's more than that. Have a read :

https://arrakis-systems.com/pdfs/Microphone Input to Line Level Adapter.pdf

 

[steveland]

I have a pair of Chandler Little Devil preamps and they can be used as Line level processors. You basically can mix harmonic distortion to your mixbus audio by driving the transformers. It is very comparable with the result that you can achive with this:

True Iron

Highly recommended!

 

[My3gger]

Ian (Ruffrecords) has made very useful "DB25" passive summer and tube mic preamps to go with it, or be used on their own as mic/line preamps. Documentation is on his website.
Both are well described, sound good, cost is low. I'm surprised no one mentioned this option.

 

[Newmarket]

Without going too technical here, if you have mic pre that has line mode then you can feed the mic pre directly from your DAW. If the mic pre only accepts mic level signal, then you will have to attenuate the signal prior to hitting the preamp. If not, it is going to go into clipping real fast. I was thinking 12 to 20dB but it seems that's it's more than that. Have a read :

https://arrakis-systems.com/pdfs/Microphone Input to Line Level Adapter.pdf

Thanks. And be as technical as you want ! So yeah that's along the lines I was understanding.
It strikes me that if you want "colour" from the micpre then you probably want to run at significant gain (?). That sort of knocks out the line input option. But the design engineer in me worries about SNR

 

[Electrobumps]

I run VP28's or 1073's on my mix and/or drum bus. It's the TX sound that adds the sound. I think of it like audio glue, it is very subtle and makes everything just sit a little better.

I think the edcor transformers add nice colour and are cheap. You could experiment with running some mixes through these.

I'm not in my studio for a week, I'll run a couple of examples when I'm back. PM me your email

 

[kags]

Here’s a transformer color idea. You can use this as a jumping off point.

https://www.barryrudolph.com/extras/carnhill.zip

 

[kidb]

Line amps would be a little more ideal, for 2bus color, since the gain staging is a little funky interfacing line level down to mic and then back up again, but hey whatever sounds good! Having a pair of neve line amps or tube line amps seems like a fun thing to mess with

 

[TwentyTrees]

Yep, I've done this plenty with preamps and line amps. It's not always right, but it's a tool in the toolbox. Shoot me a PM, happy to print some mixes for you.

On a side-note, if you're going to be throwing away some level with a pad in order to use a preamp with some gain, then passive summing is a constructive way to do it. So is a passive filter section...

 

[Iamkimosabi]

Yep, I've done this plenty with preamps and line amps. It's not always right, but it's a tool in the toolbox. Shoot me a PM, happy to print some mixes for you.

On a side-note, if you're going to be throwing away some level with a pad in order to use a preamp with some gain, then passive summing is a constructive way to do it. So is a passive filter section...

Could you just solder some resistors in some xlr/trs cables and run those as attenuation cables?

 

[Electrobumps]

Line amps would be a little more ideal, for 2bus color, since the gain staging is a little funky interfacing line level down to mic and then back up again, but hey whatever sounds good! Having a pair of neve line amps or tube line amps seems like a fun thing to mess with

OP mentioned "VP28's and similar" VP28's are mic/line by design as are 1073's.

 

[TwentyTrees]

Could you just solder some resistors in some xlr/trs cables and run those as attenuation cables?

Yep, that's basically what an inline pad is. My suggestion was more around creative ways to exploit that attenuation. Simple pad will work fine though.

 

[Horizoneer]

In answer to the original question, purely in software land I once put a VST Neve plugin - IK's Neve 1084 plugin - on the master bus. Just default - EQ off, unity gain on the preamp simulation, and I thought it just plain improved things in terms of unifying the mix. Very subtle, I'm sure if I'd called my wife in she wouldn't have been able to tell the difference without some coaching, but it did what I'd been trying to do with compression in terms of providing glue without the downsides of compression.

More recently, purely as an experiment I was playing with my BSS 402 comp on master bus, and I ran it back in through my Audient preamps. They added a certain grit on the drum transients vs the line inputs that I thought would work well for a rock mix.

 

[steveland]

The concept of using mic pres as make-up gain stage after summing is quite common. For example here:

- Shadow Hills Equinox
- Roll Music RMS216 FOLCROM
- Undertone Audio Pyra-Sum

These are basically just an array of resistors.

 

[GussyLoveridge]

I have blasted out mixes from my DAW through the line inputs on a pair of vintech x73is a number of times and adjusted the drive to taste, touched the EQ a little and brought it back into the DAW with good results. At least I tell myself the results were good to let myself know that I wasn't wasting my time. I don't always do this with every mix, but it is a nice tool when required.

 

[steveland]

I have blasted out mixes from my DAW through the line inputs on a pair of vintech x73is a number of times and adjusted the drive to taste, touched the EQ a little and brought it back into the DAW with good results. At least I tell myself the results were good to let myself know that I wasn't wasting my time. I don't always do this with every mix, but it is a nice tool when required.

Try this one on the 2bus, you will be surprised: True Iron

 

[skipwave]

-30dB pad comes in handy, or just turn DA outputs way down.

Noise comes up as well, but presumably you are not doing this to a quiet song.