Mic Splitter Transformers For IEM Rig

[TheSpeckySegg]

Hey everyone! I'm building an IEM rig and we are doing it on a bit of a budget. I was just going to do a passive non-transformer box, at least temporarily, while we saved to upgrade to either a nice retail model or get some nice transformers to upgrade our box.
Would these work well? They are quite inexpensive and have a great frequency range for the price, which will lead to far less distortion. Just not sure if the primary and secondary impedances will make it unusable?

https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail...*MTcwMTk1MzUwNS4yLjEuMTcwMTk1MzUwNy41OC4wLjA.
TIA!

 

[Whoops]

By IEM do you mean In-Ear Monitor system?

You should be more specific, I work in Live Sound so we use the term IEM for in ear monitors, but most people around here don’t work in Live sound so they will have no idea of what IEM means.

Also you ask help with audio transformers and impedances but you don’t explain what’s the goal? What will be the use? What type of audio signals will it work with?

If you don’t help people helping you out no one will be able to help.

 

[TheSpeckySegg]

By IEM do you mean In-Ear Monitor system?

You should be more specific, I work in Live Sound so we use the term IEM for in ear monitors, but most people around here don’t work in Live sound so they will have no idea of what IEM means.

Also you ask help with audio transformers and impedances but you don’t explain what’s the goal? What will be the use? What type of audio signals will it work with?

If you don’t help people helping you out no one will be able to help.

Fair enough! Yes, IEM as in In Ear Monitors.
the splitters will be to get the main stage mics both to front of house and to our in ear mixer. Most mics going into it will be sm58's or 57's. I just want to make sure that the transformer I have found will work to isolate the output to the IEM mixer without and major signal loss or distortion. I'm still fairly new to this and second guess myself quick a bit aha The main signal going through it will be mic'd instruments (Vocals, Guitars, Bass DI) etc..

 

[Whoops]

the splitters will be to get the main stage mics both to front of house and to our in ear mixer. Most mics going into it will be sm58's or 57's.

Ok, cool, I get what you need.
So what you want is to build a "Mic Splitter", I can help on this subject as I work in Live Sound concerts every week and for many years.
For "Mic Splitting" or a "Mic Splitter" you don't need transformers at all, your first idea of a straight non-transformer Mic Split or "Mult" is a good idea and it's actually common use in Live Sound.

There are of course high end active mic splitters, and also mic splitters with isolated transformer outputs but for most applications a straight passive split works perfectly.
Most of the Splitters I get and use in Live sound are just passive boxes with only cabling and XLR connectors and always work well and in those scenarios up until this day I never had a problem of it not having isolation. I use one of those type of splitters regularly.

So my advice is, ditch the transformer idea and just buy rack panels with XLR holes pre-drillerd into it, and buy all the connectors and start soldering everything thing up.
One Female XLR for Mic in connected to two male XLRs for 2 outputs of the same source.

I just want to make sure that the transformer I have found will work to isolate the output to the IEM mixer without and major signal loss or distortion.

The problem with audio transformers is that budget transformers will do more harm in this scenario than good, they will provide isolation for sure, but a cheap transformer will change the sound, will have limited frequency response will have distortion at lower frequencies.
For these duties if you want transformers with less "signal loss or distortion" you would have to get higher end transformers from Lundahl, Sowter, Jensen or Cinemag, but the price for each transformer will be quite high, from 65€ to 150€ each.
And more important, as I told before, trust me, I have many experience in this area, you don't need transformers for a Live Sound Mic Split, just do passive mults and you will be fine, happy and less broke.

 

[Whoops]

Check out this video,
the guy is doing exactly what you need:

 

[Whoops]

Another thread on the same subject,
and the knowledgeable people wrote the same as myself:

https://groupdiy.com/threads/need-advicce-for-microphone-line-splitter.58285/

 

[TheSpeckySegg]

Another thread on the same subject,
and the knowledgeable people wrote the same as myself:

https://groupdiy.com/threads/need-advicce-for-microphone-line-splitter.58285/

Thank you for all your help!

 

[Ike Zimbel]

What Whoops said, but I will just add this: Cheapo transformers are also less likely to have adequate shielding, so they can actually become a source of noise instead of reducing the likelihood of noise being created by two mixers being multed together.

 

[Riley Casey]

I have a panel with 24 Whirlwind mic split transformers you can have for free if you want to build your own. No XLRs, just the 40 year old transformers on a rack chassis.

 

[TheSpeckySegg]

I have a panel with 24 Whirlwind mic split transformers you can have for free if you want to build your own. No XLRs, just the 40 year old transformers on a rack chassis.

This sounds fun! How can I contact you about this?

 

[Graham Nystrom]

I have a panel with 24 Whirlwind mic split transformers you can have for free if you want to build your own. No XLRs, just the 40 year old transformers on a rack chassis.

And if that doesn't work out, I would gladly pay shipping to get those transformers to me. Thanks!

 

[Jim McKeveny]

Live sound pro here. Save your money. 99+% of what you need will be met by a simple hardwire split.

 

[MidnightArrakis]

I'm building an IEM rig and we are doing it on a bit of a budget. I was just going to do a passive non-transformer box

[I'm building an IEM rig] -- How many mic input channels? And.....this goes to X2 output channels??? (Example: 12-mic inputs going to 24-mic outputs? Or, 24-mic inputs going to 48-mic outputs)?

This might help you as well:
https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/01...ack-panel-punched-for-24-whirlwind-connectors

/

 

[Chrisfromthepast]

90% of the splits EMG makes right now are just a hardwired split with pin 1 lifts on 2 of the outputs.

 

[TheSpeckySegg]

[I'm building an IEM rig] -- How many mic input channels? And.....this goes to X2 output channels??? (Example: 12-mic inputs going to 24-mic outputs? Or, 24-mic inputs going to 48-mic outputs)?

This might help you as well:
https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/01...ack-panel-punched-for-24-whirlwind-connectors
View attachment 118265
/

12 in 24 out is what I'm looking to do!

 

[MidnightArrakis]

12 in 24 out is what I'm looking to do!

[12 in 24 out is what I'm looking to do!] -- OK!!!.....then.....the rack-panel with 36 NEUTRIK "XLR" connector cutouts that I show in my previous message is what you are looking to get. In addition, I would certainly jump on the offer by "Riley Casey" and take him up on obtaining those transformers he is offering. Even if you don't need to use them right now.....JUST HAVING THEM AT ALL IS WORTH -- MORE -- THAN ITS WEIGHT IN GOLD -- Specky Buddy!!! >> GET THEM NOW!!! <<

Then, buy a 500-foot roll of your favorite type of "2-conductor w/shield" mic-cable and start soldering!!! I think the NEUTRIK connectors come 25-units to a box, so get one box of females and 2-boxes of males. If you know of somebody up in your neck-of-the-woods who is mechanically-inclined, you could ask them to design a simple "Harnessing Bracket" to be mounted to the rear of the rack-panel. This is to keep all of the wires connecting to the XLR connectors neat and tidy and to also offer some structural integrity of your harness. However, if you are thinking of using a "stagebox" approach instead, then that is a whole different type of an approach. While you have mentioned what it is that you are needing, you haven't yet mentioned "HOW" you need it!!! That helps, ya know???

In any case.....you have seen the rack-panel up above and here is a "stagebox" version for comparison:


While this image is more than what you are requiring, this image is just for your visualization purposes, in order to give you an idea of what it could look like. Again, without knowing your specific application, I can only take a wild guess at what it is that you need.

So, now.....if >> I << were needing to create this "Mic-Splitter" project and because I am already "half-crazed" anyhow.....my approach would be - regardless of whether it was a rack-panel or a stagebox configuration - would be to purchase all "Rear PCB-Mounted NEUTRIK XLR Connectors" and have all of the "wiring" per-se' done on a PCB. That way.....if this happens to be a "one-off" project, you have still saved yourself a ton of manual wire-stripping, tinning and soldering. BUT!!!.....should there be an occasion where you need another splitter or someone you know needs a similar splitter, then all ya gotta do is have another PCB fabricated, buy the same parts over again and >> YER GOOD TO GO!!! << But, that's just me.

I would normally offer you my mechanical and PCB-design expertise to help you here with your project, but it seems that everyone here wants to "do their own thing" and I get it. So, should you be "technically-challenged" in both the mechanical and PCB-design areas and need some assistance, just PM me, OK??? Designing either a rack-panel or a stagebox as I have shown above and in Post #13 is really "NO BIG DEAL" for me to do, as I already have downloaded 3D CAD-models and cutouts from the NEUTRIK website for their XLR connectors and have them stored within my CAD-models library.

Here are a couple of photos showing a "Mic-Splitter" rack-panel
and sets of breakout cables that I had designed 40-years ago for
a huge concert sound-reinforcement company back then:


/

 

[TheSpeckySegg]

[12 in 24 out is what I'm looking to do!] -- OK!!!.....then.....the rack-panel with 36 NEUTRIK "XLR" connector cutouts that I show in my previous message is what you are looking to get. In addition, I would certainly jump on the offer by "Riley Casey" and take him up on obtaining those transformers he is offering. Even if you don't need to use them right now.....JUST HAVING THEM AT ALL IS WORTH -- MORE -- THAN ITS WEIGHT IN GOLD -- Specky Buddy!!! >> GET THEM NOW!!! <<

Then, buy a 500-foot roll of your favorite type of "2-conductor w/shield" mic-cable and start soldering!!! I think the NEUTRIK connectors come 25-units to a box, so get one box of females and 2-boxes of males. If you know of somebody up in your neck-of-the-woods who is mechanically-inclined, you could ask them to design a simple "Harnessing Bracket" to be mounted to the rear of the rack-panel. This is to keep all of the wires connecting to the XLR connectors neat and tidy and to also offer some structural integrity of your harness. However, if you are thinking of using a "stagebox" approach instead, then that is a whole different type of an approach. While you have mentioned what it is that you are needing, you haven't yet mentioned "HOW" you need it!!! That helps, ya know???

In any case.....you have seen the rack-panel up above and here is a "stagebox" version for comparison:
View attachment 118325

While this image is more than what you are requiring, this image is just for your visualization purposes, in order to give you an idea of what it could look like. Again, without knowing your specific application, I can only take a wild guess at what it is that you need.

So, now.....if >> I << were needing to create this "Mic-Splitter" project and because I am already "half-crazed" anyhow.....my approach would be - regardless of whether it was a rack-panel or a stagebox configuration - would be to purchase all "Rear PCB-Mounted NEUTRIK XLR Connectors" and have all of the "wiring" per-se' done on a PCB. That way.....if this happens to be a "one-off" project, you have still saved yourself a ton of manual wire-stripping, tinning and soldering. BUT!!!.....should there be an occasion where you need another splitter or someone you know needs a similar splitter, then all ya gotta do is have another PCB fabricated, buy the same parts over again and >> YER GOOD TO GO!!! << But, that's just me.

I would normally offer you my mechanical and PCB-design expertise to help you here with your project, but it seems that everyone here wants to "do their own thing" and I get it. So, should you be "technically-challenged" in both the mechanical and PCB-design areas and need some assistance, just PM me, OK??? Designing either a rack-panel or a stagebox as I have shown above and in Post #13 is really "NO BIG DEAL" for me to do, as I already have downloaded 3D CAD-models and cutouts from the NEUTRIK website for their XLR connectors and have them stored within my CAD-models library.

Here are a couple of photos showing a "Mic-Splitter" rack-panel
and sets of breakout cables that I had designed 40-years ago for
a huge concert sound-reinforcement company back then:
View attachment 118326

/

Something that fits in a rack would be be the best bet! Also, I am really grateful for the information and you've already been vey helpful! I like the idea of a PCB approach and while I've ordered many, I've never designed one. I don't think my account is open to DM people as I've tried with Riley Casey but there was no option to DM them. So if you have the option to DM, shoot me a message! I'd love to talk about designing a PCB for this project!

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Something that fits in a rack would be be the best bet! Also, I am really grateful for the information and you've already been vey helpful! I like the idea of a PCB approach and while I've ordered many, I've never designed one. I don't think my account is open to DM people as I've tried with Riley Casey but there was no option to DM them. So if you have the option to DM, shoot me a message! I'd love to talk about designing a PCB for this project!

[Something that fits in a rack] -- GOT IT!!! And.....I have already designed it!!! See images below:




[I'd love to talk about designing a PCB for this project!] -- It's already been basically completed!!! See below:



>> By the way.....what is your budget for this project? Even though having the sheet-metal and PCB custom-designed and fabricated and putting the whole thing together yourself will save you some good money versus buying an off-the-shelf product, buying 36 NEUTRIK XLR connectors and having the rack-panel and PCB fabricated still ain't gonna come real cheap!!! So.....how -- FAT -- is your wallet for all of this???

From the MOUSER website:




The below information is from a "Prototype / Low-Volume" PCB fabrication shop. To check and compare pricing in order to possibly obtain a lower price, it would require visiting several other PCB fabrication websites and inputting all of the PCB-design data in order to obtain individual quotes. This quote is just for a -- ballpark -- guesstimate at to what the PCB for this project -- might -- cost:




Based purely upon the above pricing and also assuming that the funds are available, it is -- almost -- worth it to purchase either 3 or 5 of these PCB's.....> JUST TO HAVE AROUND < in case you need to build another project or someone you know also needs one of these "In-Ear Monitor Mic-Splitters" for their own use.

Then.....there is always the possibility that I could figure out a way to use this promotional coupon:



This would bring your single-piece, 5-day turnaround price down to $108.34 and your 3-piece, 5-day turnaround down to $129.29 total.....which would certainly be way worth it to me, if I were doing this!!!

/

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Hey everyone! I'm building an IEM rig and we are doing it on a bit of a budget. I was just going to do a passive non-transformer box, at least temporarily, while we saved to upgrade to either a nice retail model or get some nice transformers to upgrade our box.

[I'm building an IEM rig] -- And...............I have already designed and have "built" the entire thing for you!!!

Here's your rack-panel:


Here's your PCB:


AN-N-N-N-N-N-D.....Here's the whole thing put together, ready to be mounted in an equipment rack:

[we are doing it on a bit of a budget] -- Buying all of the XLR connectors and having both the rack-panel and PCB fabricated is going to cost more than a couple of SHURE SM57's!!! So, what is your budget for this project? I could have the rack-panel and PCB fabricated here in the U.S. and shipped to you in Canada. Or, you could have everything "Made In Canada" and you can deal with everything on your own. In any case.....here it is!!!

/

 

[TheSpeckySegg]

[I'm building an IEM rig] -- And...............I have already designed and have "built" the entire thing for you!!!

Here's your rack-panel:
View attachment 118612

Here's your PCB:
View attachment 118613

AN-N-N-N-N-N-D.....Here's the whole thing put together, ready to be mounted in an equipment rack:
View attachment 118615
[we are doing it on a bit of a budget] -- Buying all of the XLR connectors and having both the rack-panel and PCB fabricated is going to cost more than a couple of SHURE SM57's!!! So, what is your budget for this project? I could have the rack-panel and PCB fabricated here in the U.S. and shipped to you in Canada. Or, you could have everything "Made In Canada" and you can deal with everything on your own. In any case.....here it is!!!

/

My budget for everything is about $300-$500 CAD.