MicMix Dynaflanger Schematics

[kafka]

Awesome! That was you? I think I remember that Frank Zappa used these during the Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch era. I've looked for one used for a long time, and have never seen one.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Reticon also made a 512D that was good for use in Flangers.

I found generating clocks from a voltage to period convertor driven by a triangle wave gave a nice sweep characteristic.

I used the MN3001 in the delay line kit I published in Pop Electronics back in '76, but my studio products (LOFT) used the Recticon parts. The Studio box was IMO the better sounding flanger but even the $59 kit got used by some back in the day.

JR

 

[Guest]

[quote author="mediatechnology"]

If I had to do it all over again I would put an exponential converter ahead of the high frequency VCO clock generator. It makes the frequency and envelope tracking a little more musical. I did it for a SSM2040-based phaser and a stereo synthesizer and it was far more musical and adjustment was less touchy.[/quote]

Can you share please what you did? Was it temperature stable enough? I am currently thinking of something similar, don't want to invent a bicycle. My bicycle sketch contains a chip with at least 3 transistors in a die: one in feedback of OpAmp for conversion, another for temperature sensing, the last for heating.

 

[JohnRoberts]

[quote author="RogerFoote"]John

I had 2 of the Reticon based delay line kits you had in, what, 81?
They were housed in a nice rack enclosure in my humble studio, used em all the time.

IIRC they used the SAD4095?[/quote]

I made a L-R + delay system kit for home Hi-fi. Would extract ambiance info from stereo pair recordings, but most used it to playback Dolby surround even though it wasn't to the full Dolby standard which involved a stage of Dolby B NR on rear delay channel ( IIRC). That didn't stop some thrifty movie theater owners from using them. :roll:

Surely a cost effective way to get some basic delay 25 years ago.. I wasn't aware of much studio use because of how product was positioned. Earlier simple delay kit article included discussion about how to make it a flanger and I had several customers do so.

JR

PS.. SAD4096 sounds a little more familiar.

 

[Guest]

[quote author="RogerFoote"]Yeah SAD4096

I used them for discrete delays which worked out ok, since I wasn't using them for guitar.

Later abandoned them for a design by Craig Anderton that had improved noise specs and modulation. Stll have that one![/quote]

I used compander noise limiter with Soviet 528BR2 delay lines (compressor before/expander after).

 

[Guest]

[quote author="mediatechnology"]

Click here for a larger one.[/quote]

Thanks a lot!
Did you regulate temperature for transistors?

 

[Guest]

[quote author="RogerFoote"][quote author="Wavebourn"][quote author="RogerFoote"]Yeah SAD4096

I used them for discrete delays which worked out ok, since I wasn't using them for guitar.

Later abandoned them for a design by Craig Anderton that had improved noise specs and modulation. Stll have that one![/quote]

I used compander noise limiter with Soviet 528BR2 delay lines (compressor before/expander after).[/quote]

Craig's used NE570 companding, which I modified to be much more open and sweeter. Not much, just changed a few Rs and Cs.[/quote]

I used opamps and JFETs.

 

[Guest]

[quote author="mediatechnology"]

No I didn't although it could be added. But it really didn't need to track that accurately - not like a VCO would. One could make a pretty simple expo these days with a VCA - but it would still need a tempco.
[/quote]

Thanks Wayne!
I saw where you used the rest of transistors after posting my questions. My problem is, I need some nice equal pitch stability on freqs down to 42 Hz, but may be I am too precautious. I will try your converter if you don't mind.

Also, I like your level detector. Great!

Anatoliy

 

[Guest]

[quote author="mediatechnology"]

The matrix thing on the output made stuff on either side of your head sweep to the opposite side - through your head. It was way ccol. Like two trains passing and colliding mid-brain.[/quote]

I used stock Roland's flanger pedal for such trick on concerts during drummer's solo connecting it in one channel of a mixer output. People rotated heads (I did not sum, just used a sweeping delay, so no flanger was heard!).

[quote author="mediatechnology"]Wavebourne - It's not a great expo convertor but you're welcome to try it.
[/quote]

Thanks! May be it is enough for the effect I have in mind!

A better one is one I learned from Colin Sanders of SSL. Put a fixed ref current into a THAT2180's audio input. Use Ec (or Ec-) as your control input. Do an I-V on the output as usual. The output will be exponentially related to Ec. Add tempco at the Ec input buffer.

Colin used it in the Plasma meter ramp generator. That's why a gold can VCA sits in the meter bridge. I think he personally gets credit for that one.

Thanks again! Are that schematics available?

 

[StephenGiles]

Many thanks for posting this info. I am interested in the frequency detector in the stereo simulator, what is going on there? Is this presenting a voltage proportional to input frequency to the 4046 in order to adjust the amount of delay? It looks far to simple to be a frequency to voltage converter, or am I barking completely up the wrong tree?

 

[StephenGiles]

Many thanks for that explanation - hey it must be 5am where you are! Now what we could have here is a finger vibrato controlled chorus when used with a guitar, and perhaps the initial delay set longer.

I also have it in mind that if your fast peak detector voltage was sampled and used as the upper limit of a sweep generator which was allowed to decay at a variable rate, one could have a guitar triggered filter without any of the usual ripple present in the usual envelope follower type of circuit. The amount by which the sweep rises to it's maximum point would be proportional to the strength of the note played.

 

[barclaycon]

We used 2 x MicMix DynaFlangers on a track by The Cure in the 80's called 'A Forest'. We put the cymbals from the kit overheads through them. A lot of people have asked me how we got that sound!

 

[mg73]

I love the sound of that Cure Album.
I read that most of the kit was micked with cducer mics
to get rid of all ambience sound!!

I have an Micmix Timewarp had had some problems with hum
on different timesettings.
Recapped it and some hum disapperad but still have some.
It is a shitloads of trimpot in it,
is there any service manual for it out there?

 

[JohnRoberts]

yup.. MN3001 was first Panasonic bbd.. (They licensed technology from Phillips).

Here's a perhaps funny story. I used that BBD in my old Popular Electronics kit article. I sold the parts individually as well as complete kits. I got contacted by the distributor I bought them from and they gave me a hassle, for selling well below their published 1ea, price. After the article was printed there wasn't anything I could do about it, the price was out there. They probably couldn't do anything legally. If they cut me off, I'd go straight to Matsushita, but it never came to that.. I probably did them more good than harm from the free publicity.

JR

 

[barclaycon]

I love the sound of that Cure Album.
I read that most of the kit was micked with cducer mics
to get rid of all ambience sound!!

Yes that's right glava, the whole kit had cducers taped to them.
Mike Hedges had bought a batch and wanted to experiment with them. Mostly they were used as triggers for the key inputs of kepexes. The sound of the cducer itself wasn't great - but it was sometimes mixed together with the miked sound.
The studio had just acquired 2 DynaFlangers and we discovered that if one was set on HI and the other on LO then the signal panned across the image as well as flanging in response to the signal envelope. It did produce a unique sound and was one of The Cure's best albums.

 

[mg73]

Let me see if I have a blue-line on that one. Bill H. did the Timewarp and it was under way and going into production right as I came on board.

Those trimpots IIRC set the bias and clock null of each MN3XXX. Don't remember the part number. Was it a 3001?

Recapping should've taken care of the hum. Don't know why it would be delay time dependent. There are probably some smaller electrolytic Cs on the outputs of the 78/79LX regulators. You might want to change those too.

What line voltage are you running on? I'm wondering if the regs are going into dropout as it pulls more current at higher clock rates.

Will look for the schemo.

Badly explained by me..

I had a constant hum and after recapping those white plastic standing electrolyt it disappered.
But it still have a hum that is dependent on time settings and it comes and go..
Maybe because of temperature change?

I will look at the voltage as soon as i have time to open it up.

 

[JohnRoberts]

If the MN3001 is used on a positive supply, any ripple in the pos regulated supply can get dumped into outputs. Check for possible regulator dropping out of regulation (easy to check with a variac).

That was another nice thing about reticon technology, In single pos supply app outputs loaded by ground so less PS sensitivity.

JR

 

[mr.markberger]

I have a mic mix time warp as well that’s not working and need schematic so my local tech can help me fix it
Wondering about the 18 pin plug and how that works mostly

 

[57sputnik]

I'll see if I can find an old Time Warp schematic.

FWIW the Dynaflanger schematics are here: MicMix Dynaflanger Schematics and Circuit Description - Pro Audio Design Forum

 

[mr.markberger]

Thank you so much