MJ ,whats your thoughts on it all ?

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Tubetec

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I find it quite bizarre , after all thats come out some people wont or cant  see any wrong in him ,
there actually incapable of processing it .
The families refusal to accept any responsabillity or even entertain the suggestion that Michael had some very strange predelictions with regards to children is also astounding but somewhat typical of a families response to these kinds of allegations .

How do we move on from someone who was undoubtedly one of the greatest talents in music and entertainment the world has ever known , theres no doubt any semblance of a childhood was taken from him ,he was frontman ,star of the show .


Michael did stay in Ireland for a few months at one stage ,this was all well after the allegations of abuse had surfaced around 10 years ago , people in the locality where he stayed were running over each other to get their chidren into his arms , why couldnt people see the danger signs.

Did some parents willfully allow their children into range of Jackson ,despite warning signs ,for their own magic carpet ride in Hollywood and end up turning a blind eye to the abuse ,possibly with the longer range  goal of litigation , quite likely .

The old story of the Pied piper comes to mind , someone who mentally enslaved children and conditioned them into abuse .Looks like it took years for the survivors even to see it for what it was , now still a section of the public refuse to see the monster in the mirror .

I did get into the MJ concert when he played here around '88 ,5 songs from the end, awesome talent ,fame and subsequent shame .



 

JohnRoberts

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My opinion of Micheal Jackson remains similar. A massive talent whose personal perversions were widely speculated about in the press.

I recall a pivot in modern culture a few years ago (and commented here) to revisit old infractions (including actual crimes) and hold people fully accountable to modern standards regarding sometimes decades old behaviors. Of course many of these high profile examples should never have been acceptable behavior, but somehow they were (Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, and many more). 

The Hollywood "casting couch"  was tolerated for over a century and even joked about until social media (#metoo) sunk their teeth into it. Just like so many things the advice to "follow the Benjamins" explains many phenomenon. I suspect the revisited controversy over MJ falls into that category (harvesting eyeballs for monetary payback).

Always the optimist I wish I could view this as a healthy re-inspection of history to avoid repeating old mistakes, but instead it appears more mercenary about simply gaining money or power (like the Kavanaugh hearing was purely about team politics).

An interesting re-inspection that seems along these lines is opening up Vatican historical records from during WWII, to second guess their response to the European holocaust. 

I can now understand why EU insists on the public's right to scrub personal internet history.  :eek: I still don't understand the personal stuff individuals share on social media...

JR

[edit] speaking of MJ,  Lebron James just passed Michael Jordan's lifetime scoring record. [/edit]
 

weiss

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I find the documentary very moving and i honestly believe these people. Although i think we won't ever be able to get to the real thruth. Very difficult.
 

pucho812

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it's a weird one for sure.  When it first was reported, trial, etc in the 1990's, I said the same thing as I would say now.  It's hard to say if MJ really did anything. From what I know about him  he was nice and kind and perhaps even a tinge of arrested development for any number of reasons. His dad was an asshole and that's being polite.  Who knows what that did to MJ. Does that excuse MJ, no. Does that explain MJ, a little bit.  Now as an uncle with many young nieces and nephews I would question what parent with a sound mind would allow their young offspring to stay at a grown mans house?  That is definitely not a normal response for a sane person. Oh yes, let my kid stay over at your house MJ.  I think we will never know beyond a reasonable doubt if MJ ever did any harm to any child.  it would be all hearsay at this point.
 

L´Andratté

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pucho812 said:
Now as an uncle with many young nieces and nephews I would question what parent with a sound mind would allow their young offspring to stay at a grown mans house?
Very good point! But think for what?
pucho812 said:
think we will never know beyond a reasonable doubt if MJ ever did any harm to any child.  it would be all hearsay at this point.
May I underline that too? It´s a tragedy where everybody involved has lost, noone would or could help him at last (no matter what happened) Who is really to blame? To what end? And the answer would be nomore  Billy Jean on the radio? Or rather learn something from the story?
 

JohnRoberts

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pucho812 said:
well do we cut off his music because he had a bizarre personal life that the outcome is uncertain if he did anything, it's a knee jerk reaction.
That is the play book ( a power thing too). Look at the cosby catalog of TV shows overnight disappearance, which is sad as he (the character) was a positive role model until learning about the real person playing the character. 

JR
 

Tubetec

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You dont hear much Garry Glitter anymore either ,not that you'd want to anyway ,it just all seems in the worst possible taste at this stage , especially  the content of his songs ,

Its impossible for me to see Mr Cosby in the same light since ,watching and swallowing the nice guy routine wouldn't sit well with me at all.

MJ in his music at least will I think stand the longer test of time , but it should  come attached with a lesson about fame , and personal cost . 

I can see some prefer to err on the side of nothings proven in court ,so we dont know or will never know ,but as the witness testimony stacks up(if you choose to listen to it ) theres going to come a personal tipping point ,where you have to say on balance MJ was a danger to children ,no question .  Maybe its better for some to simply avoid any of the details and allow the King of Pop to live on in their minds .
 

living sounds

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I'm inclined to believe that these allegations are true.

I still love the music, but I have not seen the 4 hour documentary yet.

Great people have often done monstrous deads as well. Demanding moral purity is a very bad idea IMO (e.g. Al Franken's resignation based on what he actually did was completely absurd), but then the alleged crimes of MJ are not small potatoes.

Bottom line is: Powerfull and/or famous people need to be checked, too. They can get away with more than they should. The absurdly low sentencing for Manford today is another reminder.
 

JohnRoberts

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The sony music deal for the MJ music catalog was just in the news (big money involved), and IIRC his neverland ranch is up for sale.

The "documentary" format has apparently been rediscovered as a vehicle to mold modern culture, and influence.

JR
 
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