I' ve built 2 stereo Igor's 2254c. I have the feeling I'm missing the limiters. Before we discuss a modification : Is the limiter usefull? Can somebody upload a compressed snare or drums with and without limiter? I'm particully interested what it does to the transients.
Neve 2254, limiter section usefull or not?
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MagnetoSound
Well-known member
It’s great for breathy, airy, squashed pop vocals.
Spencerleehorton
Well-known member
I’m actually just going to add the limiter function to my stereo 2254 build.
Will let you know and compare to the UAD plug-in version.
Will let you know and compare to the UAD plug-in version.
MagnetoSound
Well-known member
Depends how smashed you want your drums. It’s great for room or overheads, but can be a bit aggressive for the whole kit. It has a much faster release than the compressor, but the 6:1 will usually provide enough GR for most instances. It’s hardly much effort to include it, and you won’t regret it if you do.
@MagnetoSound :The thing is: I love the 2254 but I would like it even more if the transients where a little bit less pronounced., a little bit more rounded. Something, in my mind anyway, you could expect from a Neve design esp. when you hit it hard.
I don't know if the limiter would do that.
@Spencerleehorton: very interestîng, did you made your own pcb for that? Did you made a picture of the mod.
I don't know if the limiter would do that.
@Spencerleehorton: very interestîng, did you made your own pcb for that? Did you made a picture of the mod.
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Spencerleehorton
Well-known member
Yep all made from scratch, my build is documented on here as well
What you must bear in mind is that there is the 'fast' limit mode as on the 2254E,
which shorts out a resistor...but it doesn't....or shouldn't....
I never liked the 'fast' position- some strange things happen at certain high levels, but all is well if you put a 470 ohm in series with the 'fast' poition of the switch.
On early 2254E, the 'fast' position just shorted out a resistor between D and E on the 185 board.
On late modules and the 32254E's, this 'shorting' loop was taken to pins J and L on the rear connector.
Between these pins, in the rack, not the module, Neve fitted a 470 ohm! Same as I found by trial and error before ever seeing a late 2254E.
Here's something to keep in mind- many many times I've had 2254E's in a rack sent to me for a rebuild.
Each time I asked why they liked the 2254E over the other modules, and why they had paid extra for them.
Each time I was told it was because of the 'fast' position on the limit switch, which they loved.
I think from memory four or five times they were late 2254E's, with the loop to the rear connector,
but the modules were in an older rack, with no resistor fitted......
Therefore, these guys had the 'fast'position making no change whatsoever, but all of them loving it....
They were all from the same country, that's all I'm saying....
Also keep your eyes open for the little- known B507 board in place of the B185 in late 32254's. I'll try and dig out the circuits and some factory memos that explain the differences.....
which shorts out a resistor...but it doesn't....or shouldn't....
I never liked the 'fast' position- some strange things happen at certain high levels, but all is well if you put a 470 ohm in series with the 'fast' poition of the switch.
On early 2254E, the 'fast' position just shorted out a resistor between D and E on the 185 board.
On late modules and the 32254E's, this 'shorting' loop was taken to pins J and L on the rear connector.
Between these pins, in the rack, not the module, Neve fitted a 470 ohm! Same as I found by trial and error before ever seeing a late 2254E.
Here's something to keep in mind- many many times I've had 2254E's in a rack sent to me for a rebuild.
Each time I asked why they liked the 2254E over the other modules, and why they had paid extra for them.
Each time I was told it was because of the 'fast' position on the limit switch, which they loved.
I think from memory four or five times they were late 2254E's, with the loop to the rear connector,
but the modules were in an older rack, with no resistor fitted......
Therefore, these guys had the 'fast'position making no change whatsoever, but all of them loving it....
They were all from the same country, that's all I'm saying....
Also keep your eyes open for the little- known B507 board in place of the B185 in late 32254's. I'll try and dig out the circuits and some factory memos that explain the differences.....
Spencerleehorton
Well-known member
Could you perhaps show the 470R position on a schematic to avoid any confusion please, as i will try this and compare with and without.What you must bear in mind is that there is the 'fast' limit mode as on the 2254E,
which shorts out a resistor...but it doesn't....or shouldn't....
I never liked the 'fast' position- some strange things happen at certain high levels, but all is well if you put a 470 ohm in series with the 'fast' poition of the switch.
On early 2254E, the 'fast' position just shorted out a resistor between D and E on the 185 board.
On late modules and the 32254E's, this 'shorting' loop was taken to pins J and L on the rear connector.
Between these pins, in the rack, not the module, Neve fitted a 470 ohm! Same as I found by trial and error before ever seeing a late 2254E.
Here's something to keep in mind- many many times I've had 2254E's in a rack sent to me for a rebuild.
Each time I asked why they liked the 2254E over the other modules, and why they had paid extra for them.
Each time I was told it was because of the 'fast' position on the limit switch, which they loved.
I think from memory four or five times they were late 2254E's, with the loop to the rear connector,
but the modules were in an older rack, with no resistor fitted......
Therefore, these guys had the 'fast'position making no change whatsoever, but all of them loving it....
They were all from the same country, that's all I'm saying....
Also keep your eyes open for the little- known B507 board in place of the B185 in late 32254's. I'll try and dig out the circuits and some factory memos that explain the differences.....
Spencerleehorton
Well-known member
As I said could you point out exactly where it goes please?
Spencerleehorton
Well-known member
Or are you just saying put a 470R between J and L on ba185?
Okkk..it's on the male connector that the 2254 plugs into.
In the rack or the console, so it's not on any diagram or schematic.
Look closely at the pictures....you have a resitor that the fast switch 'jumps'....it was a 470 ohm on the B185.
This gives a fast attack. If you change it for a 2k7 you get a slow attack, the board becomes a B185A, and you then add the 'fast' switch to jump this 2k7 with a 470.
In the rack or the console, so it's not on any diagram or schematic.
Look closely at the pictures....you have a resitor that the fast switch 'jumps'....it was a 470 ohm on the B185.
This gives a fast attack. If you change it for a 2k7 you get a slow attack, the board becomes a B185A, and you then add the 'fast' switch to jump this 2k7 with a 470.
..."As I said"....
Spencerleehorton
Well-known member
Just got the limter going on one channel and i would strongly recommend the limiter, such a nice function really useful for not much work.
On my B185 R16 is 2.7k so its set to slow attack, i will put in the attack switch so i can get the fast as well with 470R
On my B185 R16 is 2.7k so its set to slow attack, i will put in the attack switch so i can get the fast as well with 470R
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Why not try a multi position switch and many different values,
and try less thaa 470 as your faster choice?
Your circuit layout and interboard capacitances etc will not be the same as a Neve 2254,
so why not grab the opportunity to see if you can push it a bit more?
( Notice that one mod Neve did to the 32253 was to use a screened cable to the rear connector to pick up the 470, and this made the module more stable.)
Sine wave in, 'scope the output, and see what happens to the output when you hammer the input!
and try less thaa 470 as your faster choice?
Your circuit layout and interboard capacitances etc will not be the same as a Neve 2254,
so why not grab the opportunity to see if you can push it a bit more?
( Notice that one mod Neve did to the 32253 was to use a screened cable to the rear connector to pick up the 470, and this made the module more stable.)
Sine wave in, 'scope the output, and see what happens to the output when you hammer the input!
Spencerleehorton
Well-known member
So just trying to figure this out a little more as what I think is happening is the 2.7k R16 resistor and the 470R are put in series right? Or is the 2.7k replaced with the 470R?
I’ve added in the 470R between J and L as per schematic but essentially it’s like adding a 470R between E and D on B185?
Could you confirm I have this right please?
I’ve added in the 470R between J and L as per schematic but essentially it’s like adding a 470R between E and D on B185?
Could you confirm I have this right please?
Rob Flinn
Well-known member
Think about it Spencer, if you are trying to make the attack faster the resistor value will need to be less, because it is controlling how fast a cap charges up. Therefore if you put the 470R in series with the 2k7 it will be more resistance & the attack will be slower. The 470R is probably just switched in parallel with the 2k7 which will make the overall value a bit less than 470R.
Spencerleehorton
Well-known member
Yes I see now it shorts out the 2.7k R16 so putting a 470ohm between the switch and E and D (J and L) gives you the faster attack as the 470R would be in parallel with the 2.7k, giving 400R
My bad, just came off a two night shifts so a bit shot away!!
My bad, just came off a two night shifts so a bit shot away!!
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