Neve R10 screws?

[AcdNrg]

Does someone know which screws are used in the R10 rack?

I expected M3 as all my existing cases have those. But the threads don´t match and I´m not a fan of brute force. Maybe something imperial? If so, I´d like to swap the nuts, because I´d rather not have a special set of screws just for that single case.

 

[AcdNrg]

Nevermind, it took a few minutes to swap all those nuts for standard M3x12 spacers, works like a charm and now the Neve matches the standard I use in my studio (which is metric + Torx).

Maybe someone else can use this information

 

[AcdNrg]

Oh one more thing, Neve support answered (very timely, thanks Tristan) and stated the original nuts are 4-40 1/4" (whatever that means, outside Star Wars I´m not an imperial person ^^)

 

[Brian Roth]

4-40 is a very common size for small "imperial" nuts and screws used in electronics. Other common screw sizes used in electronic equipment is 6-32 (slightly larger) and 10-32 (rack mounting). The first number defines the diameter of the hole in the nut (or the diameter of the matching screw). That number comes from "who knows where?" in the ancient numbering imperial system. The "-40" is the pitch of the thread per inch. So, 4-40 would be a specified diameter (4) and a thread pitch of 40 per inch.

The 1/4" designation for that 4-40 nut refers to the outer dimension of the entire nut itself. It refers to the dimension of the outer edge "span" from side to side on the flat edges. Those smaller nuts are sold in (at least two) different sized outer dimensions. In the case of 4-40 and 6-32 nuts many folks refer to the overall outer dimensions of the two most common sizes as "small pattern" or "large pattern". The threaded hole has the same specs, but the overall size of the entire nut will be different. IOW, you can have a 4-40 threaded hole in a nut that is 1/4" flat-to flat, or a 4-40 threaded hole in a nut that measures 12" from flat-to-flat (NOT a real part unless you have one custom made.... lol).

Bri

 

[Gold]

The 1/4” could also refer to the length of the screw.

The pitch of Imperial screws is either UNC or UNF. Coarse thread or fine thread. Coarse thread is more common. That 4-40 screw is UNC. UNF is 4-48.

 

[john12ax7]

4-40 is from the 500 series standard.

 

[Brian Roth]

LOL then there are the 1/4" diameter shafts used on popular miniature toggle switch shafts. The imperial numbering kinda quits after #10 (rack) screws although the numbering goes up to al least #12.

In the larger sizes, the imperial screw sizes start to use diameters vs. the arcane "number 4/6/etc" numbering.

For 1/4" screw diameter sizes, 1/4-24 is a very common size. It is a coarse thread.

Mini-toggle switches use a shaft with 1/4-40 pitch....ultra fine pitch. I believe there is an intermediate 1/4-32 thread size....fine pitch.

I thought I had a chart of the smaller imperial sizes/thread pitches on this computer. Alas, not found.

IIRC, imperial screw/nut sizes begin at #1 then work larger through at least #12.

Bri

 

[AcdNrg]

Oh my, a whole new world unfolds Thank you for making the numbers speak!

 

[Gold]

LOL then there are the 1/4" diameter shafts used on popular miniature toggle switch shafts. The imperial numbering kinda quits after #10 (rack) screws although the numbering goes up to al least #12.

It goes to #12 but I think that's more of a wood screw thing than a machine screw thing. I don't know if I've seen a #12 machine screw in the wild.

In the larger sizes, the imperial screw sizes start to use diameters vs. the arcane "number 4/6/etc" numbering.

For 1/4" screw diameter sizes, 1/4-24 is a very common size. It is a coarse thread.

1/4"-20 is the common UNC thread pitch. 1/4"-28 is UNF fine pitch.

Mini-toggle switches use a shaft with 1/4-40 pitch....ultra fine pitch. I believe there is an intermediate 1/4-32 thread size....fine pitch.

I'm not sure those ultra fine pitches are standardized. I've never seen a chart with pitches other than UNC and UNF. I could be wrong though.

 

[Brian Roth]

I am still searching for an all-inclusive chart of imperial machine screw/hex nut specs. If you scroll down this page:

https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/...size-chart-machine-screw-sizes-and-diameters/
...I see that 000 is the smallest size. I guess those tiny machine screws are what hold my eyeglasses together!

It also shows that #12 is the largest in that arcane numbering system. #12 is just a tad smaller in diameter than a 1/4" machine screw.

Unfortunately, that chart does NOT show the threads-per-inch for UNF (fine) or UNC (coarse) screws.

That chart also doesn't show the common "flat-to-flat" dimensions for the commonly used mating hex nuts.

Still searching for a comprehensive imperial chart.....

Bri

PS, this THREAD ....pun intended.... really needs to be moved to the machine shop section.

 

[Brian Roth]

I am down a huge rabbit hole now <g>.

Keystone Electronics is one of my favorite suppliers for various hardware parts.

https://www.keyelco.com/index.cfm
Here is a chart showing "large and small pattern" imperial hex nut dimensions in #4, #6, and #8 sizes.

https://www.keyelco.com/category.cfm/Screws/Machine-Nuts/p/483/id/930
Keep in mind, there are different thread pitches (coarse, fine, etc.) in the various sizes. Keystone sells the most common imperial thread pitches used in electronic equipment. 4-40, 6-32, 8-32.

Bri

 

[Gold]

If you got one of those iPhone devices there are some good apps. I like iEngineer and Drill Sizes. Has Imperial and Metric side by side.

McMaster-Carr has pretty much everything there is and the website is well organized.

 

[Brian Roth]

Hiya Paul. We are both fans of having small hardware parts on-hand.

Let me begin with a copy of a list I made for my great friend/client here in Salina, KS (in 2005???...many years before I relocated here).

Aaron was just starting into DIY as well as owning a pro studio (Trident, then Amek desk, Studer A800 machine, etc etc.). Back then, I drove from Okla. City to Salina KS several times a year to work on various tech projects for Aaron as well as another client in Salina.

One thing that drove me NUTS (pun intended) was not having small hardware for various projects. Here in Salina, we have Ace, Lowes, and Menards big box stores, but the small hardware selections are slim. Fastenal has a branch here...they are semi-decent for selection, but with parts orders typically being needed to ship to here from ...KC??? St. Louis?? warehouses.

ANYWAY, here was my email list I sent to Aaron 15+ years ago:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Start with the basic kit....Decent price for the assortment kit, and
since it's from Digikey, I ASSume the quality is OK. I'm going to order
one of these kits for myself.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products...315?s=N4IgTCBcDaIIwDYAMYC0BpAkgFVQOQBEQBdAXyA
Add-ons to the basic kit. Order 100 pieces of each of these:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PMS 632 0075 PH/H368-ND/51486
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PMS 632 0100 PH/H372-ND/49823
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/INTLWZ 008/H244-ND/5745
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/INTLWZ 004/H236-ND/5743
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/INT LWZ 002/H232-ND/5742
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HNZ 832/H224-ND/5740
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HNZ 440/H216-ND/5738
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HNZ 256/H212-ND/5737

Order 300 of these:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/INTLWZ 006/H240-ND/5744

The 6-32 nuts in the Digikey kit are the "large pattern", and Digikey
doesn't seem to stock the small pattern nuts.

Order 300 of these from Mouser:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=/ha2pyFaduhDUlkLFtT4aEc4iq7BMzaivrYZpPXwCZI=

That will be a "lifetime supply" of basic little screws and nuts, etc.

Once we get larger than #6, then Ace can fill in the gap...at a BIG price.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

I used that same list 5+ years ago when working in Omaha on a new/large studio build. The guys there were also very much into DIY kits.

I see the prices have made a big jump from what I remember "back then" (even 5 years ago).

McMaster-Carr is a great source I am just getting used to. Perhaps we should collect a bunch of their part numbers for common "must-have" hardware for DIY and studio servicing?????

I STILL think this entire thread needs to be moved from the "Brewery brawl" to the "Machine shop" section so that other folks can find it in the future and not have to meander through all of the noisy political crap in order to read it.

Bri

 

[Brian Roth]

I am not a moderator here, so I am trying to move this conversation away from the Brewery political screaming to:

https://groupdiy.com/threads/small-...y-for-diy-and-general-studio-servicing.81994/
Bri

 

[Gold]

Well Brian, I have an obscene fastener collection. Almost all from McMaster. When I started in building the console I had to decide Imperial or Metric. The McMaster Imperial selection was far more comprehensive so I went with that. I have a wide selection of machine screws, nuts and washers. I needed most of it. I like 18-18 stainless steel.

I also have a decent metric selction for the lathe and the lathe electronics. The most exotic of which is a M2.6 or DIN918. It’s an old German standard that made it into current metric sizes. I figured it out when neither M2.5 or M3.0 fit.

 

[AcdNrg]

Adding a bit of fuel to the fire , I´d like to recommend - or praise - torx over hex, philips and slotted heads. In my situation, I´ve collected enough eurorack modules to fill two monster cases and I do a lot of shuffling of those. Torx is just easier to place, power transmission is better and therefore wear and tear is much less, screws tend to live longer. I´ve standardized my studio to Torx in all places that see a lot of changes. If you think about stocking screws, you may want to consider those as well.

 

[Brian Roth]

The main deal is the quality of the metal used in the screw heads. Regardless of the head variety, if the metal is crappy, then "Houston...we have a problem" lol

I also like Torx heads IF the metal isn't junky. I hate most hex head screws. At least I have SOME chance with a slot head,

Bri

 

[Gold]

Torx and it's many variants aren't as popular in Imperial fasteners as Metric fasteners. I think I have three varieties of Torx. Plain Torx, Torx+ and security Torx. I think there are even more. I have them all as 1/4" bits. If I used them more I'd have fixed blade screwdrivers. Confusing.

 

[Gold]

Here is the collection. First photo is 4-40, 6-32, 8-32, and 10-32. Second photo is 1/4-20, 5/16”-18 and 3/8”-16. Third photo is metric, wood screws and miscellaneous. In reverse order, oops.