New line of EDCOR transformers

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rafafredd

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Joined
Jun 3, 2004
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Location
Rio, Brazil
So, it´s not better than the old line. It´s CHEAPER.

Well, it has half the power rating (1.25w). Would it be enought for most line purposes?

Take a look:

http://www.edcorusa.com/transformers/audio/pcb.htm

And the old line:

http://www.edcorusa.com/transformers/audio/matching.htm

Also, they have made the PC mounted ones expensivier, but also prettier:

http://www.edcorusa.com/sound/ttpc.htm

I´ll order some PCxxx types to try soon.
 
dont forget that all the edcor transformers have iron cores (no nickel) so they will distort a bit with low level signals. this could be just what you're looking for; with such low prices it is well worth it to order a few and find out.

also, edcor is good about doing custom work. you may have to talk at them a bit to get exactly what you want, but they'll do it.

ed
 
>so they will distort a bit with low level signals.

What kind of distortion? Are they recommended for mic input transformers?

Hmmm... At those prices, I may try a couple...
 
> half the power rating (1.25w)

Actually says 0.25, one quarter Watt, which is indeed half the rating of their higher-price line.

0.25W or 250mW is +24dBm. On the face of it, a respectable rating. 12VRMS in 600Ω, which is more than most op-amp chips can touch.

But audio power ratings can be funny. It depends a LOT on what low frequency you need full power at. Look at their "budget-price 10 Watt" 25V/70V speaker line-match transformer. It is the same size (a hair smaller) as the 0.25W line transformer. This actually makes sense. The 70V speaker-tranny racket is large and competitive. The low-price model, any maker, for the last 70 years, will get pretty soggy below 150Hz. For speech and low-fi music below the maximum power, the amplifier must strain to drive all that weak inductance on the line, but it does work well enough to get paid for the job (wiring dozens or thousands of cheap small ceiling speakers in a large office or factory).

So if this core is good for 10W at 150Hz, it is probably good for 0.1W at 15Hz, and the 0.25W rating may really be valid near 20Hz.

To my eye, this looks OK for a mike-amp output nominally delivering +18dBm peaks, normal level below 0dBm. It looks small for a Board Out transformer, rated to run at +8dBm with peaks well over +20dBm and all at lowest distortion.

Also as ed says: for $5, you don't get the magic-alloy core. Distortion would be lower with fancier iron-stuff cut with nickel and other costly metals. But since half the uses of trannies around here are for "iron sound", this "lacking" may be exactly what you want. The plain core will give a bend in the bass at modest levels, and the small core may add extra bentness at some level that you might be able to get from a hot chip or discrete output.

One thing: if the transformer could have zero primary resistance, and you drive it with a zero-impedance source, distortion is nearly zero. And these trannies have very low insertion loss, suggesting quite low primary resistance. To a point, driving them with an op-amp (zero ohm source) gives very low distortion. Problem there is that the low inductance gives a falling impedance in the bass, so at some frequency and voltage the transformer sucks more than the 40mA or so limit of the op-amp. Distortion will be gross. (It may be musically useful.) For attempted low-distortion operation, you could need 100mA peak drive. For funky higher distortion, you should pad-out the op-amp with 100-600Ω before the transformer, so the amp does not try to force the nonlinearity out of the core.

The 600:10K 0.25W, used backward, might make a usable 1:4 mike-input transformer. It has zero shielding so it will suck up all the humm and buzz in the room. You might get away with this plus a power transformer at opposite ends of a 17" rack case, assuming the boxes above and below don't have their power transformers on the mike-tranny end of the box. FWIW: I have an unshielded mike transformer, on a dynamic mike 20 feet above the stage, up in the rafters of the concert hall, laying among power lines and dimmer-lamp cables. I put it in a $1 iron junction box I got in the electrical section of the hardware store (get a cover-plate to enclose the box). This is our backstage monitor system, so the talent knows when their act/piece is coming up and they should get ready. I don't hear a lot of hum or buzz in it.

None of their audio trannies are rated for DC current in the winding. Being plain iron interleaved, they can take a small amount of DC, like the offset voltage of an op-amp. But they won't work as Neve single-ended 2N3055 outputs. You might be able to "do it" with one of their power transformers, but that is all wrong for Neve-style thinking.
 
There is a WSM600/600 rated at 0.5Watts.... so that's about 17.32V @ 600 ohms...

I think this will work very well as an output trafo with my mic preamps utilizing NE5534 opamp and Jensen input trafo. Max output with the Jensen mic circuit is 13Vpp.
 
The WSM series are rated for 1/2W. This seems a conservative rating, because I've pumped +27dBM through them for fairly long periods of time while bench testing and they don't even get warm. So I wouldn't be very surprised if these new models can do better than their rating especially with intermittent program material peaks.

If these do as well as the WSM series as far as frequency response and insertion loss, then they are very good transformers indeed for the price. I've been impressed by the price-performance ratio of the WSMs I've tested.

Edcor doesn't make anything that's suitable for mic input, but their stuff is great for line level.
 
[quote author="NewYorkDave"]...Edcor doesn't make anything that's suitable for mic input, but their stuff is great for line level.[/quote]Would these make good candidates as input transformers for your line mixer in the other thread?
 
> they don't even get warm.

Audio transformer ratings are rarely limited by heat.

Rating is usually limited by saturation and distortion, a slanting line of level versus frequency, and what bass response they want to claim.

Can you put +27dBm at 20Hz through one, and have it come out clean?
 
I´ve just run a simple test with a WSM 10k/150 I got for cheap from EDCOR.

I intend to use it as a 20k/300 plate tio line output XFRM, so I just put a 20k resistor in series with my computer soundcard output (rated 1kZ) and a 304 ohms resistor across the secondary winding of the transformer. Than I´ve hooked the soundcard input (rated 10kZ) across the input windings and run a frequency response test.

That´s what I´ve got:

http://photobucket.com/albums/v172/rafafreddy/?action=view&current=EDCOR_10k-150_at_20k-300.gif

-2.4dB at 25Hz and +1.4 at 1.3kHz and down again 0.2dB at 20kHz.

So, I guess it doesn´t look very bad, and I can at least try to use it at this rates (20k/300). What do you think?

EDIT: photobucket gone PAYSITE!!! ARGH!!! Here it is: http://hps.infolink.com.br/rafafredd/EDCOR_10k-150_at_20k-300.GIF
 
> -2.4dB at 25Hz and +1.4 at 1.3kHz and down again 0.2dB at 20kHz.

OK, but a simple transformer can't possibly have all those small peaks/dips... that is digital garbage. The result may be valid after smoothing, or it may be all garbage. The low end is very dubious.

Also: does this account for the sound card response? Many cards are not flat to 20Hz, some are badly dropped.

Even so, unless it is all garbage, it looks perfectly usable. The transformer will really be dead-smooth over most of the audio range. A decline at 20Hz is expected, and not a big problem. All that zig-zag from 25-100 has to be garbage; I suspect a gentle slope from 100 down to -2 or -3 at 25, which would be OK for my organ recording and plenty for bass when you plan to EQ to taste anyway.
 
Well, maybe it´s a result of the configuration I´ve used. You know, I loaded the output of the soundcard both with the resistor (20k) in series with the transformer AND the 10k input of the card, so , maybe this caused the peaks.

I´ll try doing a FR of the secondary by hand, so I kow what´s really going TROUGHT the transformer...

My soundcard alone is DEAD DEAD FLAT from 10 to 21 kHz at 44kHz samplerate.
 
dont forget that all the edcor transformers have iron cores (no nickel) so they will distort a bit with low level signals.

No way to use as mic inputs. Those are LINE INPUT/OUTPUT ONLY. I´ve heard good things about the WSM series.
Just curious, is this just because of the lack of shielding or is it mainly the lower (mic)levels that give distortion ?

(I have a mu-can here that'll easily cover a WSM)

Regards,

Peter
 
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